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Supporters aim to raise cash for repairs to White Lady T-bar

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
White Lady t-bar
A group of UK snowsports fans have launched a fund-raising campaign to repair the White Lady ski lift in the Cairngorm ski area in time for the forthcoming ski season. Campaigners wanting to keep the tow running have held talks with bosses at CairnGorm Mountain Ltd.
The lift was closed for a large part of the 2006/07 season after a major accident scare, when the one-tonne pulley wheel at the top was catapulted to the ground. No-one was injured in the incident. A new 'Cherished Uplift' account has been set up by them with the Bank of Scotland branch in Aviemore, and donations are currently being sought....An announcement on the immediate future of the White Lady tow is expected from CairnGorm Mountain Ltd some time later this month.
The company is currently investigating the cost of repairing and servicing the tow, which also provides alternative access to the Coire na Ciste ski area.
Any businesses or individuals who would like to make a contribution to the fund can hand in donations to the Glenmore Shop or make a payment directly into the 'Cherished Uplift' account in the Bank of Scotland branch in Aviemore.

For more info: http://www.winterhighland.info
From: http://www.strathspey-herald.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/1782/Supporters_aim_to_raise_cash_for_ski_uplift_repairs.html
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A triumph of sentiment of sense?

Would such an ancient bit of kit be permitted to continue operation in, say, France?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
David Murdoch, quite. Many happy memories but can't get my head around why they should do anything but scrap it. When I worked there one woman was killed on it and there were many injuries... normally due to falling on the first steep pitch when it was iced over and meeting Mr Pylon on the way down. It just isn't the way to travel upwards any more. I think nostalgia is a thing of the past wink
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There are plenty of steep drag lifts in France, if you fell on the top section of Champagny in Tignes you would slide a long way.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
rjs, prob with the White Lady was that it was very often very icy on the tow track and it caught many people out.
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Bode Swiller, Champagny is blue glacier ice.
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rjs, I don't spend my time memorising the names of T Bars. I guess its about who is likely to use a T bar as to whether it is safe or not... loads of les capable skiers used White Lady when the old sideways chair was really busy.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
David Murdoch wrote:
A triumph of sentiment of sense?

Would such an ancient bit of kit be permitted to continue operation in, say, France?


There are still T bars in France rolling eyes

I doubt the lift will run this year unless £10000 is found very quickly. Cairngorms have said that they will not dismantle the lift this year. If we get an average winter there will be snow at Cairngorm from the mid station up and this lift is 1/3 of the uplift from the mid mountain to the top.
I think the fund has about £1000 so far.
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Given an estimated £10,000 to fix the lift and make the required adjustments to the return station and a full price day ticket of £27, the cost of repairing the lift could be expressed as 370day tickets. May I suggest that the message leaving the lift that serves one of Scotland's most iconic ski runs to rot sends out will cost CML a damn sight more than 370 day tickets this winter.

That the cable still lies as it fell on the 3rd of Feb, on some towers, off others, dissapearing into the growing heather and grass in parts is a disgrace and that it's been left like that in full view of everyone riding the Funicular beggars belief. You don't need to be an engineer to know that it's a FAILED lift, no wonder tourists are Shocked at the view across the White Lady.
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Bode Swiller,

What steep pitch? I have no recollection of the WLT being particularly steep compared to tows I've used in France or even the WW poma, M1 poma or the Tiger Tow in scotland. I've skied at Cairngorm for 10 years, regularly in the last three since becoming a season ticket holder and I've ridden the WL tow every year its run, in that time I've seen a few people fall off it, but no injuries (other than to their ego Smile ) I've seen many more people come off the M1 poma and the much easier Ciste tow (usually beginner boarders on the ciste tow who can't hold an edge and drift off the tow track where it falls away in places).

Winterhighland,

So CML still haven't done anything with the cable on the tow. I would have thought it was in their interest both in terms of the view that visitors get, and in saving money in the long term - ie in keeping the cable in good nick so it can be reused, to either remove the cable, replace the cable on all the sheaves or at a minimum, just for the visual aspect, drop the cable to the ground.
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Dave Horsley, Just past the SSC hut... Ok not Steeeeeeep but steeper than the rest of it and always a horror (if icy) for those of us trying to get nervous skiers up to the Ptarmigan. The chair was always too mobbed or closed. Maybe the hill has been remodeled there since the 80s and the track is probably groomed (it hardly ever was back then). T bars, Cairngorm and injuries... oh happy days.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Bode Swiller, the track is the same but the beginners are all in the funicular now.

tbh, I think this is just throwing money away. If the plan was to start a wee alternative lift company on cairngorm with the wl tow as its first lift I'd donate, but giving money to CML for snowsports investment, might as well just burn it rolling eyes
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
brian, the money WILL NOT be handed over to CML. At which point there is either sufficient funds to pay for the repairs or CML decide there is enough avialble to make it viable for them to proceed, CML will carry out work after which the Mountain Trust (which is a registered charity) will be re-imbursed with the agreed amount from the fund.

This is on the understanding that if the fund's money is used to fix the White Lady Tow that CML are committed to operating the White Lady T-bar every weekend that it can be used.

The fact that historically the White Lady T-bar was used to take inexperienced novices who should never have been near that lift to the beginner terrain in the Ptarmigan Bowl is not a reason for closing the lift, plus this is no longer an issue with the Funicular.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I can understand the reluctance to invest money to fix the lift. Sentimentality aside the stark facts are the snow level is rising and the days of good skiing in Scotland are numbered. I have skied in Scotland since I was 5 years old and now being at the ripe old age of 30 I have my sensible head on.. why invest in infrastucture which will most likely be unusable in the next few years? The last sustained (ie. not the odd week here and there) good cover of snow on Cairngorm was during the late nineties. I can barely remember the last time I was able to ski all the way down to the carpark!! I have fond memories of Scottish skiing and I can always hope it will return to the good old day. I have a bad feeling though and think the operators of Scottish Ski centres do as well. Maybe the cash would be better used to invest in alternative mountain activities at Cairngorm... can`t believe I have said half this stuff.. bit gloomy.. lets hope I am totally wrong!!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
mrtoastie,

Absolute rubbish. Where were you 2001/2 (I think). The year that CML closed early due to bulding work starting on the funicular Full cover for months and still skiable after they closed. Or 2005/6, the snow may have come late but there was lots of it for about a month and a half and there was skiing back to the car park. I managed 27 days in Scotland that year. Even last year (when CML had continuous cover at the top from December to April) but the season was generaly poor, I still managed to ski back to the car park via the M2 and Daylodge on a few occasions. A bit more work with a piste machine and that route would have been usuable for longer aswell.
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Dave Horsley, I am not talking absolute rubbish. You are quite entitled to your opinion but I think the facts speak for themselves.. your paragraph above actually backs up exactly what I was saying. You say it was great in 2005/2006 because we had great snow for a month and a half... the season used to be 4 - 5 months .. not 1 or 2 months.. last year you managed to ski back to the carpark on a few occasions....I hope you can see my point.

I am not trying to be argumentative.. just realistic.
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mrtoastie,
You said
Quote:

The last sustained (ie. not the odd week here and there) good cover of snow on Cairngorm was during the late nineties. I can barely remember the last time I was able to ski all the way down to the carpark!!


I'm just pointing out from personal experience that those comments are rubbish. I've pointed out two seasons in the 2000s where there was "sustained (ie. not the odd week here and there) good cover of snow on Cairngorm ", I'm certain that there were others where there was good cover at Cairngorm for over month, but those two in partcular stand out in my memory. I was also pointing out that I skied to the carpark last season, in an otherwise very poor season so unless your memory is particularly poor its not exactly barely remembered.

Quote:

You say it was great in 2005/2006 because we had great snow for a month and a half... the season used to be 4 - 5 months .. not 1 or 2 months..


Now your changing the goal posts, first it was there's never good cover bar the odd week here or there, now its there used to be good cover for the whole 4-5 months. I've only been skiing here fo 10 years (from 97) and don't remember continuous cover for that sort of time span any year I've been here.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Between 2001 and 2007 I have managed 20+ days / season average from my Glencoe season pass - skiing only at weekends.

> days of good skiing in Scotland are numbered

I have to disagree....

There are plenty photos winterhighland.com etc of some excellent Scottish skiing from the last few seasons.
However the key to Scottish skiing is making the most of whats is on offer when conditions are good.
And with the internet weather reports etc this is easier than ever.

Why not jump in your car at 7am when conditions look good? And more often than not you will be rewarded.
It amazes me how many people live in the central belt and make uniformed comments like

"Last season wasn't that great, I only managed up north once..."
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Quote:

"Last season wasn't that great, I only managed up north once..."

True, I only managed 11 days Wink but two were reallly, really good. Blue sky, warm weather and absolutely brilliant spring snow. Skied over to Ben Macdui and back on both occasions. On one of the trips had a friend with me so I couldn't cheat and use my season ticket to take the train up before setting off over the back. We walked up the Daylodge, skined up the M2 and Fairway and then over the back to Ben Macdui. Absoulutely brilliant ski off Ben Macdui, I then skated the flats back into Coire Dhomain and we finished by skiing the Cas headwall and down the Cas at the end of the day just after all the lifts had closed. All under beautifull blue skys in T-shirt weather, but the snow never turned to mush, hard crisp spring snow that took an edge really nicely. Sottish skiing at its best Very Happy .
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Haggis_Trap,
As a Central belt resident I think that the statement
Quote:

"Last season wasn't that great, I only managed up north once..."

May have a ring of truth. I started skiing in the eighties and used to go up quite frequently at weekends and odd days off and frequently had decent snow though the weather was always variable.

In the nineties I lived overseas and didn't ski at all in Scotland

I came back in 2000 and now with children I have less free time to just nip off for a weekend but when I do get the time the conditions from the snow reports rarely seem worthwhile. If I could go any weekend I may still get decent conditions but the weekends I'm free rarely coincide with the good conditions Last year I did not get any skiing the year before I had two or three days and the same the previous years.

I know there is good snow, I read about it but it rarely seems to coincide with my free time even though it's less than 2 hours to Glencoe. Evil or Very Mad

PS Like the pictures from your website.
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Resurrecting a very old thread.

This week at Cairngorm (according to reports and from friends who have been there) has been horrendous due to the queues. It is virtually impossible to ski the whole length of the White Lady unless you want a climb back up to the M1 Poma or take a risk with dubious cover to the Funi and then have a 45 minute wait to get back up.

CML/Natural Retreats need to get an uplift plan in place. They keep making excuses on their FB page citing "what we inherited" but since the takeover they have been quick to make plans for a new Day Lodge and retail outlets but absolutely no mention of improving uplift. The cynic in me says that winter ski operations are a hindrance to them and the don't really care about the long term viability of skiing.
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@Gaza, I think Natural Retreats see greater profit from coach loads of tourists all year long spending in the newly upgraded day lodge, shops and ptarmigan restaurant.
Those pesky families of skiers who bring sandwiches and their own drinks do not seem as welcome.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Dunk, precisely my point. However, the wider Aviemore tourist industry might disagree with them!
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I vowed never to return after the tedious wait for uplift the last time I was there.
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Very informative thread here, describing the way that the Cairngorm ski area is being financed (or not) http://www.winterhighland.info/forum/read.php?2,81386,page=202

Quote:
So the top of the pile are the share holders of the parent company "Natural Assets Investments Limited"
They are :-
Mr. David Gorton (60%)
K2 Equity Partners LLP (40%)

The "shareholders equity figure" is -£15.7million (MINUS)

However those same top of the pile share holders also own Natural Retreats Management Ltd.:- Mr. David Gorton (70%), & K2 Equity Partners LLP (20%), with Natural Retreats Lp (10%).

However K2 Equity Partners LLP has a net worth of -£2.4million (minus), is not only the shareholder of the parent company, it is also a Subsidiary of it too (see by above post)....

BIG NEWS:-

Mr David Michael Gorton the shareholder in this lot is a big hedge fund manager with 22 active directorships & founded LONDON DIVERSIFIED FUND MANAGEMENT (UK) LIMITED

The combined cash at bank value for all businesses where David holds a current appointment equals £14.2m, a combined total current assets value of £95.8m with a total current liabilities of £14.9m and a total current net worth of £86m. Roles associated with Mr David Michael Gorton within the recorded businesses include: Director, LLP Designated Member, LLP Member

& he's been a naughty boy:-

www.telegraph.co.uk

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He was found 'Not Guilty' - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11923649/Millionaire-hedge-fund-manager-cleared-of-attacking-wife.html
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@geoffers, Just so I understand, what is the relevance of the cash and assets at the other companies where this chap is a director? Surely you can be a director of some hugely successful and very rich companies and a director of a very poor unsuccessful company at the same time.
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Not sure - I'm just passing on the details on the W.H. website where there is a massive debate into the (mis)management of the Cairngorm ski area by Natural Retreats : read the 204 page CairnGorm Mtn (Non Conditions Discussion) thread if you want further insight Toofy Grin
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Build a fundraising team to spread the word and raise fund.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@prernak, I think you are nine years out of date.
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Poster: A snowHead
Quote:
I think you are nine years out of date.
Yep... rolling eyes What was left of the White Lady Tow (pylon bases & bits of cable) was all removed years ago... Confused
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