 Poster: A snowHead
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@GlasgowCyclops, travel isn't an issue with ABS, best advice I'd give is to advise airline in advice and follow their instructions.
I'm with @livetoski, regards Jetforce, batteries and cold weather don't mix IMO, I'd much rather have a canister, and a carbon one at that!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| livetoski wrote: |
@mmgg1988,
Yep different activation systems on the ABS and AVAbag cylinders, it would not be wise to mix any different brands cylinders, even if they operate on the same system, the copper seal caps are a different thickness and this could cause problems. This includes Mammut systems as well. |
That's useful thanks. Interestingly, when I bought my non Ortovox branded ABS bag, the best value option for the cylinder was an Ortovox branded one. I e-mailed ABS to ask whether they would be compatible. They said that they made all carbon cylinders to the same spec and sent them out to the various "partners" so any partner branded cartridge would be compatible with any ABS system bag. Obviously this was in the days of the MASS system
Any idea whether Ortovox are now making then in house/with a different manufacturer or whether ABS are still making them for them but perhaps to a different spec?
Has slightly put me off the idea of upgrading to an AVAbag if I have to change the cartridge too 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Markymark29 wrote: |
| @GlasgowCyclops, travel isn't an issue with ABS, best advice I'd give is to advise airline in advice and follow their instructions. |
I would say that travel isn't an issue with a Jetforce, as there is no notification or declaration required at all. Travel with an ABS shouldn't be an issue, provided all pre-notification as taken place, but even at Geneva flying BA I've been called to explain what it was, and they must have seen thousands, so it is down to the staff on the day. The only place my ABS has been a complete non event was Vancouver.
I bought my Jetforce for a trip to Japan, as I could not find anything on flying internally with ABS in Japan. So far I have not seen anything related to the new Arcteryx pack, that is any better than the Jetforce.
In terms of technology fan packs are brand new with only the Jetforce and the Voltair for the coming season. I fully agree that they are heavy, and the packs are poorly designed, but so were the ABS systems for the last 20 years. It has only been the last couple of years that we have seen sub 2kg cylinder packs. I expect the second generation fan packs to be better all round.
My view is that currently the new lightweight cylinder packs are better for multi day touring, while the fan packs are better for pretty much everything else - travel, heli/cat and resort accessed backcountry.
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I've narrowed my selection to two avalanche backpacks:
- Ortovox Base 20 ABS (link to pack features: http://www.evo.com/airbags/ortovox-base-20-abs-airbag-pack.aspx) - I have an offer for cca 420 EUR including MASS Unit.
- BCA Float 22 (link to pack features: http://www.evo.com/airbags/bca-float-22-airbag-pack.aspx#image=94414/413932/bca-float-22-airbag-pack-lime.jpg) - I have an offer for slightly used (1-2 days) for 365 EUR.
I am undecided which backpack I should buy. I didn't test either of them so I have to rely on internet reviews and opinions.
Each of them have some pro and cons arguments (my subjective ones  )
Ortovox Base 20 ABS:
Pros:
- more comfortable (better back fit) - i think
- back protection compatible - SPS
- more durable (?
- more features (whistle, A-frame ski carrier...)
- better design (?)
- slightly lighter
Cons:
- more expensive
- more expensive when changing used ABS cartridge
- it's a product which was replaced with newer Ascent nad FreeRider Avabag backpacks
BCA Float 22:
Pros:
- cheaper
- it's cheaper when changing used cartridge
Cons
- Initial Cartridge is actually more expensive than initial ABS steel Cartridge
- less features
- less durable (?)
- back protector (?)
- design
I am personally leaning towards Ortvox Backpack, but the price difference is something to reconsider.
Which one is better?
Thank you for your answers/opinion.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I tried a few and out of the lot prefer the Ortovox freerider 24. Any less than 24l and id struggle to get shovel probe and an extra layer in.
Really comfy pack, don't know its on
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@mmgg1988,
The new AVabag cylinders are different to the Ortovox MASS and ABS system ones, I am pretty sure that all the carbon cylinders for all brands are made under contract in the same factory, but to different specs do not try and use a ABS or MASS carbon cylinder in a new AVABAG
The steel cylinders were also made in the same factory, for both ABS and Mammut
@matejp,
The Ortovox Base is an old pack now from 2015 2016 and is discontinued for the coming season, but its a super little pack, super durable and will fit more that you think in terms of gear.
The Float packs are OK, not as good a build quality as the Ortovox packs, and the BCA cylinder is pretty big and heavy, yes its refillable at a dive shop, the but is, its a pain to do and once the date stamp has run out on the cylinder, it has to be retested before it can be refilled. Again the BCA system is to USA specs hence the different cylinder.
@PowderAdict,
Yep agreed on the fan packs and technology, they may well get lighter over time, but its the fan its self in the Jetforce that is the problem, if your using one I would suggest that you keep the inside of your backpack super clean all the time, no debris, crumbs, paper or anything else that can get sucked into the fan mechanism!!!!
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@matejp, Its interesting how your thread titled ABS appears to be considering all but ABS packs themselves. Take a good look at the ABS Vario 18L and 25L zip offs with a carbon cylinder, the beauty of the zip offs versus the Ortovox is that you have a pack that is interchangeable with different sized packs and is also market leader. It is also available on many German websites (it is German after all) at well discounted prices. Then come back to UK and talk to the UK market leaders and do a deal with them is my advice.
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@Markymark29: It's not my thread, I've just used it since I am interested in the same area as original poster .
I'll check ABS Vario Unit, but it seems that there are not many discounts on these items. Sport-Conrad however have Vario Unit listed at 400 EUR.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Markymark29, It was me that started the thread and I used the term ABS as it is rather like saying Hoover.
From the advise on here and other reviews elsewhere, I've ordered an Ortovox AVABAG 22 with a carbon cylinder.
Like others have said above, the idea of fans, wires and batteries is not something I want to be thinking about when I need to pull the handle.
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Is Deuter ABS pack (link on First Page) good?
EDIT: @Chamcham (not Markymark): It seems that you bought Deuter ABS Ontop 26 pack. Can you share your impressions? I can't find any reviews online (except advertisment)...
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Tue 13-09-16 20:13; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@bar shaker, @matejp, sorry guys my bad.....durr....,, I've got Vario ABS btw.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I reconsider my backpack selection and I think that ABS Vario system is better fit for me than other backpacks.
I found an offer for ABS Vario Base Unit + 8l Zipon + 18l Zipon Sack for 350 EUR, which is under limit in my designated budged.
What persuades me:
- right now I am comfortable with small backpack (8l or 18l), but in the future who knows
- price(!!)
- there is also a summer base unit, which allows usage of all other zipons all year around...
- style
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 14-09-16 14:16; edited 1 time in total
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Yeah, I've ended up with a vario base unit and three different zip ons - they seem to come up heavily discounted at times.
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You know it makes sense.
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Given they've now been in use for a full season, is there any love for the Jetforce bags?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Last year I bought a new spare 18l ABS zip on bag for £19, just seen some 24lt for £48 and there are plenty of other options about. I find the 18lt ultralite fine for a jacket, avi gear, skins and some food, but also have a 24lt which I haven't had to use yet 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@flaming, I'm liking my Pieps Jetforce 24, the only practical downside is the small internal volume. I would say it is closer to a 18-20ltr pack, than 24ltr. However, I find that all backpacks come up undersized, but this is due to the method of measuring volume using small plastic beads which get into every crevice, rather than the sort of items you will actually carry.
I'm considering getting the Pieps Jetforce 34, for when I need more gear. I used a ABS Vario for 5 years before the Jetforce with Dakine zip ons.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Reading through this seems to be a lot of different advice. I am looking for a small pack that can take shovel probe, spare layer and water bottle. Ideally I would like it to be small enough that I don't need to remove it on a chair lift.
I am looking at the Mammut Rocker Protection 15L or the Ortovox Ascent 22.
I am most likely to be accessing via lift and a short boot pack. Not planning touring currently.
Do you think the 15L Mammut will be too small for the gear?
I currently have a small Dakine which I love but need to upgrade to ABS now I think.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Bennyboy1, I find all that fits perfectly in my 18lt ABS Vario and works fine on every chair lift I've been on so 15lts is doable. Spare layer is a synthetic duvet and I also carry food, spare goggles etc.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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How easy is it to get a canister filled up. EG BB in Arabba, EOSB, Cortina etc etc. IE do ALL ski sops have a refill unit?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Scarpa, thanks, I guess it depends on the actual usable space in the pack. I will look at the ABS packs as well. Being on a board I need to research how the open if I am carrying my board on the pack. Lots to think about!
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@Bennyboy1, I still haven't used my 24lt zip on, maybe if I did a full off piste/touring day with skins, packed lunch and flask I would need it.
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I have a 15L Mammut airbag and use it for lift served off piste.
It comfortably carries a probe, shovel, skins, sunglasses, bottle of water, snacks and a down jacket or fleece no problem.
With very few straps on it's outside I don't feel the need to remove on a lift unless specifically directed to do so.
Nick
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@big_ben, Same with me with my 15L Vario
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@big_ben, which Mammut do you have?
I cannot decide between the 15L Rocker Protection 2430g or the Rocker Removable Airbag 2090g. Different bag system.
Any thoughts?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I have the 15L Rocker Protection pack which I believe has now been superseded by the version 3.0. The airbag portion of this pack can be removed for travel or when not needed.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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My Ascent 22 has finally arrived. I've got to say I am really pleased with the quality of manufacture and the design.
The bag and bottle take up very little room and the whole unit is barely any heavier than my Heli. It's easy to take the bag out and it's also easy to arm it for dummy handle pulls/familiarisation. The handle is also adjustable for position, to suit different body shapes and preferences.
The pack fabric itself is much tougher than the early promo shots indicated and the whole thing feels at least as durable as my Dakines.
The board/ski carry systems are good, so are the shovel and probe straps inside. The goggles pocket is the right size and softly lined.
The back protector is comfortable and it's very easy to make it feel 'just right' when wearing it.
Thoroughly recommended.
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@bar shaker, But can you get all those drawings and that tray in it?!
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You know it makes sense.
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I wore my new Ascent 22 for the first time last weekend (opening weekend in EK - powder everywhere!).
It's superb. I loaded it up with my shovel, probe, curly bike lock, fleece, woolly hat, low light gogs, board tool, wallet, sunnies and some Mars bars. There was still room for more as the gubbins takes up very little room at all.
The pack was super comfy and I quickly forgot I was wearing it. Without all my crap it in, it feels very light.
With the big orange handle out, it is protected from being accidentally tugged, but very accessible.
I really recommend it.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@bar shaker, you need to rethink those specs! 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Mosha Marc wrote: |
| @bar shaker, you need to rethink those specs! |
I don't understand.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Those plans................
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@bar shaker, glad to hear your Ascent 22 performed well for you.
Did you have any issues with the air bag zip and Velcro closure opening unintentionally??
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Fud wrote: |
@bar shaker, glad to hear your Ascent 22 performed well for you.
Did you have any issues with the air bag zip and Velcro closure opening unintentionally?? |
No but I have on my new Avabag Freerider 22 - opens the whole bloody time, fully, lighty loaded or fully loaded. I think it may have been badly fitted and will look at it again but tempted to return, Superb in every other regard.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ah, well that is interesting @mishmash.
I also have the Avabag Freerider 22 and had exactly the same problem during a recent off piste week. I've been looking for examples of other people having the same problems hence my query about the Ascent 22 which I assume has a similar bag release system.
I'm also thinking about returning mine, its completely compromised as far as I'm concerned and have no idea how it achieved TUV certification with such a flawed closure system.
Any other similar experiences out there??
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Fud wrote: |
Ah, well that is interesting @mishmash.
I also have the Avabag Freerider 22 and had exactly the same problem during a recent off piste week. I've been looking for examples of other people having the same problems hence my query about the Ascent 22 which I assume has a similar bag release system.
I'm also thinking about returning mine, its completely compromised as far as I'm concerned and have no idea how it achieved TUV certification with such a flawed closure system.
Any other similar experiences out there?? |
I used it every day for 5 days - 1st 2 days v v full . My control was Mrs MM who was using a Freedider 20 S and had no probs. I compared and contrasted and some issues were different - there is a zipper end tab that compromises a velcro tab if not tucked away and i thought it was that - but ultimately it wasn't. Was with a IFGMA guide who was seriously unimpressed!
Having said that , 20S Freerider was fine . Will be looking for an Ascent 30 now though!
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Same experience. 7 days off piste with an ESF instructor who was likewise very unimpressed by what is otherwise a seemingly trustworthy brand.
How does the design of the ABS release differ on the Freerider 20S from the 22?
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| Fud wrote: |
Same experience. 7 days off piste with an ESF instructor who was likewise very unimpressed by what is otherwise a seemingly trustworthy brand.
How does the design of the ABS release differ on the Freerider 20S from the 22? |
20S is a shorter back , like the Freerider 24 vs 26 non Airbag (or ABS when it was 24 ABS W ) . Same mechanism but I think maybe a longer back puts more pressure/flex on the teeth of the zip with a light load. Anyway , I will be talking on Monday !
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Likewise, let me know how you get on!
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You should have a tab for the zip to sit in to prevent said issues?
The other side of the zip should always be partially open in order for the air bag to be deployed.
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FAQ
