 Poster: A snowHead
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Dear snowheads,
I've had a range of foot issues (morton's neuroma in left and sesamoiditis in right) but over the last two years I've developed the aforementioned agonising pain across the bridge of my feet when skiing and it feels very different to the 'normal' pain I get. It becomes worse about day 2-3 of a ski holiday and then remains a constant. It can spread across my feet and up my legs.
Things I've tried: a range of boots, wearing boots very loose/tight, specially made ski orthotics, doing 20 mins in the gym on bike before ski day commences, painkillers, nhs orthotics, wearing leg braces at night to stretch the calves, thinner socks, foam rollers, foot exercises rolling onto edges and using golf ball under foot, heel lifts.
Things I could do better: more general exercise, losing weight. 3 years ago I skied with little pain and I was about 2 stone lighter then. But I've had some general health issues that have contributed to my lack of exercise and weight gain (severe b12 deficiency).
Anything else I could consider. I'm at the point it may be the end of skiing for me. ..husband is most distressed!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Oh dear, that sounds awful! Have you seen an instructor to check nothing dodgy has crept into your technique, putting pressure in the wrong places?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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And have you seen a well reputed foot problem person? Where are you based, Colin at Solutions4Feet in Bicester is, Iirc, a podiatrist.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Dear both,
Technique wise there are probably lots of areas! I'm a high intermediate and my main issue is slight knock knees. I'm in Scotland and whilst I'd love to see CEM its quite far away. I've seen NHS folk but their solution is mainly don't ski!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@clarelaing, maybe try Alan Baxter (yeah, that one !) in Stirling?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Do you own your own boots?
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I'm not putting down CEM (I still owe him a visit after cancelling about 3 months ago and moving to Liverpool on a whim) but this is something that your local friendly National Health Service can deal with for you.
About 3-4 years ago, I was FINALLY (it's incredibly political) referred to a podiatrist by my GP who was convinced there was nothing wrong with my feet. (Lazy useless twerp GP) and the podiatrist quickly diagnosed that I had plantar fasciitis and collapsed arches, both of which are quite serious and a little worse than "nothing wrong".
When I started skiing this was undiagnosed still and I got horrendous pain across the bridges of my feet in the manner you describe, after as little as 3-4 hours on skis.
They produced an insole to wear in my shoes (with 3 different grades... the higher the grade the more supportive they are but quite painful if I wear them all day, so I swap them around, you have to edge into it). I then got a ski shop to basically duplicate my NHS ones for custom insoles for my ski boots. There is a bit of technique in there too - learning to spread your weight across your foot, and not focus it on any one part. I also curl my toes when I ski which doesn't help, I'm getting better at not doing that.
Rather than chasing around private institutions at great expense, I would go see your GP, see if you can get a referral to a podiatrist.
The insoles in my shoes have been amazing over the past 3 years and my collapsed arches have almost completely recovered and walking around all day is much more comfortable than it used to be. I highly, highly recommend it. You're entitled to it and it's free, so why not? But if you take one word of advice from me it is - do something about it. It will only get worse not better and my typical man approach to it (IE - if I do nothing about it, it will go away) led to some seriously painful ski days which kind of ruined it, before it started getting better.
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Dear dp
Thanks so much for taking the time to reply. I've been seen by orthopaedic doctors who referred me to physio and to an orthotist. Their opinions were that i had the neuroma and sesamoiditis but no mention of any plantar issue. They said i have very tight calf muscles which could be causing some of the problems.
The physio was of little help, gave me some exercises but said they were unlikely to make any difference. The orthotic guy was good and I do have specially made shoe orthotics which are very dense with a high arch built in. They don't fit in ski boots so I took them and had some custom sidas ski footbeds made mirroring their shape as best they could. Unfortunately they too made little difference.
I've been trying to recall the pain (funny how it is so intense at the time but hard to pin down after) and it was in the bridge but especially bad along the outer edges of the foot. I experienced more pain standing still and on drag lifts than when actively skiing.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@clarelaing, could it ge jst as simple as your boots being too narrow in that area? And requiring a little stretching?
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[quote="clarelaing"] Pain across the top of the foot could be from a problem with the joints of the midfoot. You can get arthritis of these joints but it should be picked up by a scan or xray. Have you seen a foot and ankle specialist?
If the pain is spreading up into the lower calf after exercise it could be related to the tight calf. Stretches should sort it out though if that is the case.The fact that the pain starts to spread with exercise sounds like a neural (nerve) or vascular cause needs to be considered.
If you haven't seen a foot and ankle specialist that would be my suggestion.
Jonathan Bell
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Lack of flexion in the lower legs is what I would look at first with a training/stretching program which must be over time as in weeks months .
Equipment purchases /doctors visits wont get you sweating stretching or training for a month but a physio or structured classes really helps with this .
Read Cems posts on lack of flexion and recreationals, dozens exist and remember nothing is in isolation such as bootfit or doctors and/or stretching/training .
Some of the above you can buy like bootfitters or doctors but the training you cant buy except possibly motivation to do the crucial stretching.
Cant help with any ski specific stretching classes but certainly would be interested .
I would think profeet will know if anything exists ?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I used to get this a lot until I started doing proper foot stretches and exercises twice a day. Helps a lot!
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@clarelaing,
A few questions: do you get foot pain when not skiing? When skiing when is the pain worst? When skiing, walking, on T-bars / sitting down? Pain straight away when boots on? Or after a run or two? Anything make it better? Any worse or better in different boots? Own boots or rental? What size / width are your feet? When you have been fitted for boots have they taken the inners out and got you to stand in the boots alone- with no inner? (these questions are not in the right order but never mind) Any other joint problems??
Lots of people get foot pain and I think there are lots of reasons.
The most common cause of foot pain when in shoes is ill fitting shoes (this is what they teach you almost straight away on an orthopaedic attachment at medical school, it was what they taught me in about 1989 I guess it is still true).
I have also had similar pains- only in ski boots. I have very broad feet ( I am very broad generally- but my feet are never going to be slim and were always broad). It is very hard to find a boot wide enough and sometimes I have had them blown out across the mid foot- and still they are agony. Better when actually skiing- i.e. weight across whole foot, pressure on shins and on heels, heel slides to the back of the boot. Worst when standing up straight- i.e. on a T-bar, standing about not skiing.
But also I have had pain from my feet up the outsides of my lower legs when it has been icy and I think this has been much more to do with techniques and tension, edging very hard and not relaxing my feet - cramped feet and cramped peroneous muscles (I think) which are the muscles on the outside of your shin / lower leg that do things to your ankle.
So: describe exactly
your feet
your boots and how they were fitted
when the pain comes on- skiing only or not, when exactly when you ski, what makes it worse or better, where it goes up your leg (inside leg- outside leg, front / back) and what sort of skiing you have been doing when its most miserable- icy, soft etc.....
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You know it makes sense.
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@clarelaing, Hi, I have had similar issues in the past, was born knock-kneed and had to wear a brace in bed until aged 4 to straighten my knees (which worked), also have a very high instep (still clearly the case). I had 3-4 pairs of boots in the late 80's and early 90's that used to give me huge pain, in fact I was at the point of thinking I'd never sort it. This was in hindsight was probably never the boots fault, it was because I didn't have a custom insole, and I was unknowingly tightening my foot into an unnatural flat position by over-tightening the boot clips. I also have large calves (muscle not fat) from doing loads of cycling and walking.
Solution - (1) MOST IMPORTANT -proper custom insoles for your boots (best £60-70 ever spent)....see Graham at Rivington Alpine, Chorley (nearer Scotland an he did mine, excellent, takes a while, 1/2 day but its a proper job), he'll also tell you if you need new boots, I suggest. (2) Classes HIIT in 3 months before I go away (do them all the time now) to keep my calves trim and stay as fit as I can, I'm not super thin but do eat properly and exercise regularly, could do with losing 7/8kg though, Work in Progress, Christmas is my target, I tend to get heavier in summer. (3) Loads of water through the day and no alcohol at lunchtime if I'm skiing some big stuff (4) don't slacken boots through the day - this is the true measure, I actually tighten my mid clip once the liners have settled down mid morning, and keep them cranked up over lunch (5) don't overtighten top clip, can be let loose, the front clip needs to be tight (stops water coming in), and also mid clip pretty tight to hold foot in position. (6) dry properly overnight, take liners out and use Thermo boot warmers, shell and liner need to be properly dry IME. Finally (7) bin your boot liners when they are 4 seasons old - they don't last. Also.....a big breakfast and never ski with a hangover, maybe sounds a bit trite but it does make people cramp up.
Come back to me if you want to discuss any of the above, there WILL be a solution
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Another thought - yoga? Stretching/ extending muscles.... also sleep important, I need 8 hours absolute minimum, not hard in the Alps, but if not I can feel ratty and looking for problems, in this event blame stuff rather than my technique. It a funny thing skiing, comes really natural most of the time but can also go off the rails if small things go wrong.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Sorry I've been off radar folks and thanks so much for all your replies! I'm going to sit later and think about the more recent pots and give a little more info.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Posts I mean...auto correct..
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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If you are getting pain acorss your arch then you need to take the strain off it. When I had this I had what was knwon as plantar fasciitis and started wearing some arch support insoels like these which really helped.
http://shoewawa.com/product/shoewawa-arch-support-insoles-for-plantar-fasciitis/
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Fri 10-02-17 14:30; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@nosnowballz,
Maybe your about too post one of your links to more cra pp.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Just a little update folks! I'm currently mid ski trip. Having digested all your comments I thought about things I hadn't yet tried. I do feel that my tight calves and lack of ankle flexion are very relevant. In the past this had drawn me to a low flared boot but actually I felt that this might have been making the issue worse as I wasn't able to flex forward to benefit from the support of the front of the boot.
So I invested in a pair of Nordica boots in a more upright canting with my custom sidas footbeds. Saw some of the professional folk recommended to help get the right boots. I've also really been watching my technique as I feel I was gripping with my toes when I wasn't forward enough. I've been taking naproxen and loosening my boots at every lift etc. I'm skiing less each day than I would in the past.
The result is that the calf and leg pains are no longer. Unfortunately the foot pain persists - though I do feel it is less intense. It is located along the outer edge of the foot about half way along. It starts within 10 mins of skiing and eases slightly after 30 mins but remains present. It is relived by loosening the boot and worsened by standing mid piste with all weight on downhill leg. It feels like a burning aching pain and thus I am wondering about the possibility of nerve type involvement.
I wanted to thank you all for your suggestions..there are still lots I need to explore further but I do feel a bit more optimistic!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| clarelaing wrote: |
Just a little update folks! I'm currently mid ski trip. Having digested all your comments I thought about things I hadn't yet tried. I do feel that my tight calves and lack of ankle flexion are very relevant. In the past this had drawn me to a low flared boot but actually I felt that this might have been making the issue worse as I wasn't able to flex forward to benefit from the support of the front of the boot.
So I invested in a pair of Nordica boots in a more upright canting with my custom sidas footbeds. Saw some of the professional folk recommended to help get the right boots. I've also really been watching my technique as I feel I was gripping with my toes when I wasn't forward enough. I've been taking naproxen and loosening my boots at every lift etc. I'm skiing less each day than I would in the past.
The result is that the calf and leg pains are no longer. Unfortunately the foot pain persists - though I do feel it is less intense. It is located along the outer edge of the foot about half way along. It starts within 10 mins of skiing and eases slightly after 30 mins but remains present. It is relived by loosening the boot and worsened by standing mid piste with all weight on downhill leg. It feels like a burning aching pain and thus I am wondering about the possibility of nerve type involvement.
I wanted to thank you all for your suggestions..there are still lots I need to explore further but I do feel a bit more optimistic! |
Great to hear there's been some improvement at least. I have similar issues, also currently mid trip and I've 2 pairs of boots with me and I'm swapping daily! One pair is a great fit but cause the pain, and the others are more comfy but useless for working on technique.
Take Jonathan Bells advice and see an Ortho consultant who specialises in foot surgery (not some random junior in an NHS clinic). Ideally see someone who skis!! Go privately if you have to - it is skiing after all...
I get injections into the relevant spot which kill the pain entirely for as long as it lasts - usually a few months. I'm away again in Feb so I must remember to make an appt for another shot as I'm having some trouble this week.
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@clarelaing, gripping with your toes could contribute to the pain I'd say, so worth trying to "relax" your foot when skiing?
Also I wonder if the new boot is perhaps a touch narrow? That would explain the outer edge of the foot pain as the foot spreads when you stand on it and has nowhere to go in a solid plastic boot if it's not wide enough??
How old are the new boots as they could take 1-2 weeks to bed in a bit...
I also have tight calves and stretch them every time I do my teeth (as recommended by Pam W)!
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@pending I'm interested in the injection idea..wonder if something like that could help. Think NHS consultants probably don't see skiing as an essential so I'm unsure they'd do much more than they have thus far. @kitenski I'm really trying to keep the foot more relaxed. Boots were measured and width deemed ok but I think there are more adjustments to be made. Defo need more time to run them in. Happy festive skiing everyone (or planning of future skiing).
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