 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi All,
By the end of last season I was getting alright at skiing Canadian 5+/6- live in Canada at the moment and the terrain is fantastic; trees, steeps and tons of snow. Anyway I've bought all the touring gear and now find my skiing has turned to shite - new boots need getting used to but I feel problem is my centre of balance moving back due to my pack.
Any collective wisdom on how to pack / get weight forwards with a pack? Every run currently requires a lot of work :0 Hill opens next week and my thoughts so far are, tighten up all the damn straps, do a couple of days without pack to get back into the swing of things and then try increasing load in the pack to see what works.
Thanks for any help with this admittedly pretty vague question!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@motdoc, error... Husky & sled for pack?
Is there such a thing as a pack that fits over like vest, so at least some smaller heavier items can go at front?
Grow a beer belly like me to even things up?
None of the above?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Make sure that the heavy things are packed at the bottom- the closer the weight is to your hips the better.If all the weight is high up towards your shoulders it has a bit of a 'pendulum effect' (for want of a better way of describing it) when you move through a turn.Other than that I guess it is just practice.
Having spent years skiing with my children as they grew up and then my skiing without them being backcountry I find it very strange skiing without a massive pack on my back 
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Have you changed your bindings? Are the new bindings “heel high” (the delta angle)? Some skiers are quite sensitive to the delta angle and if it is too large they will feel unbalanced towards the backseat.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Not all packs are equal & I have several for different purposes. The one I use for skiing (Ultimate Torso pack & I believe was made for running) is unusual in that the shoulder straps are free-running at the lower connection point. The straps are fitted as normal at the top of the pack but instead of being fixed at the lower point the strap runs through to the other side, allowing considerable give as a shoulder moves, for instance when pole-planting & one shoulder moves forward & the other back a bit. The continual resistance with fixed packs when moving shoulders is tiring & I suspect encourages restricted movements. The downside is that it isn't good at really heavy loads but I don't suppose that is of any consequence for recreational skiing & it certainly good for a jacket, helmet, snacks, drinks etc.
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Are you sure the problem is your backpack? You could try skiing without it. In my experience backpacks have to be fairly heavy to make much difference. I usually ski with 5kg or so (day trips). Ocassionally ski in the resort with no pack and do multi day trips with a 10kg bag. I dont find the adjustment too large compared to the points below.
My guess is the you ski boots may be part of the issue. The usual foward lean of the boot makes a big difference - eg how much flex is in your ankle. Personally i find if the boot's neutral point is too far forward then i struggle to engage the boot as i am not flexible enough. For other people the reverse may be true.
If the boots are soft vs your normal boots, then you may find you have to drive the ski more with the feet rather than the shin. I bought stiffer touring boots to help on this.
The ramp angle of ski boot to binding is an issue i have never corrected for but some people certainly have.
Final thought are tgat ski touring skis are lighter and more likely to get chucked around in lumpy snow conditions - this takes a bit of getting used to.
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Yeah, sounds like you changed all your kit at once. Probably not just down to the pack.
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As others have mentioned, which boots and binding do you have? The first time I tried tech bindings using boots with swappable sole plates, I could ski fine in the boots in alpine bindings, but on the tech bindings it felt like I was on tip toe all the time. I couldn't pressure the front of the boots correctly, and it felt like I was in the back seat all of the time.
I installed a 5-6mm shim under the toe binding, and every tun was back to normal.
If you still have your old alpine boots/skis, try going out with the same weight of backpack on, and I suspect you will ski fine.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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As others have mentioned, too much forward lean in the set up (combination of forward lean in the boot and delta in the bindings) will make skiing harder and skiing with a pack much more difficult. The second thing to watch for here is weak core strength. Bridges will help with that.
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I also reckon this is more down to the boot/binding combo than the pack
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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IMO I would forget the pack, its unlikely to be the cause of the issue - it sounds like you might be skiing in walk mode. Its probably a case of getting used to new gear - what gear do you have - super light touring gear will never go down hill like down hill gear does.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I would guess that it's either something else, or that riding with a pack may exaggerate existing issues with stance.
Sticking weight aft would not help any "back seat" tendency.
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Thanks for the advice team. I've swapped out some 110 Salomon into to some 130 Lange - I suspect this is part of the equation as getting a bit back used to result in a gentle shove in the calf followed by me sorting it out. The new ones just kick me off ;p. Bindings were changed last season as they were on offer, and skis are the same Rossi Sin 7s (maybe too much boot not enough ski?).
Just out of interest I found more stack height on the bindings actually made my skiing easier off piste - I suspect due to my short legs. Core and the such have been cross fit smashed for the last year so are better than at any point previously.
Either way I suspect I'll get over it and the new boots will lead to better skiing.
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You know it makes sense.
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@motdoc, what make and model of bindings?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| motdoc wrote: |
| Thanks for the advice team. I've swapped out some 110 Salomon into to some 130 Lange - I suspect this is part of the equation |
That's bound to be it.
There is no problem that cannot be solved by buying more equipment. As well as the new boots how about another rucksack, worn at the front with the straps clipped behind your back? That would aid balance and possibly also allow you to carry both sets of boots.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Marker tour f12. Turned up to 8. 16/17 model.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@motdoc, have a look at slide 30 of this: http://www.ronlemaster.com/presentations/AlignmentAndStance-Whistler-12-2009.pdf
Guy in the grey outfit has boots that are too upright. When he squats, his armpits are way behind his knees. Person above in the white top has the right amount of forward lean in the boots. Armpits and knees are roughly aligned. They are in good balance.
Stand in your bindings and squat. If your armpits are either way ahead or way behind your knees then its a good indication that you have a gear problem.
That doesn't mean you need to buy more equipment. It just means you might need someone who knows what they are talking about to have a look at your setup and make some adjustments. We had a guy a while back on here who went from skiing with a lot of quad pain to pain free skiing after 20 minutes with his boots and a heat gun.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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F12 has 6mm of delta with the average rockered sole touring boot, less with an alpine sole, so not excessive compared to tech bindings but on the high side if you're used to a low delta alpine binding. For lightweight skiers it's possible to shim under the toe mounting plate but only by 2mm max as it puts pressure on the frame. Likely culprits are the boots internal ramp/zeppa angle &/or the forward lean angle. Some boots have an adjustable forward lean so can be set more upright. On others the rear cuff spoiler can be removed to allow a more upright stance or the rear cuff can be stretched etc.
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Think @gorilla's suggestions on alignment are good.
I also think it would be sensible to strip things back and get used to the boots before you throw in the extra issue of the pack.
Skiing with a pack does alter balance but it should be in the range that a reasonably accomplished skier can adjust to quite quickly. However if you are also working out your balance in new boots you will be making things much tougher.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@jedster, said
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| Skiing with a pack does alter balance but it should be in the range that a reasonably accomplished skier can adjust to... |
In fact when I started touring I felt that skiing with the pack almost made me a better skier, since it was important to keep the upper body quiet to prevent the weight of the pack swinging around and pulling me off balance 
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@motdoc, as above re binding/boot ramp angles... The other question is why change from 110 to 130 flex? I see lots of peole in the winter skiing 'over-powered' boots that they can't flex which results in a very stiff ankle, which results in general 'back-of-centre-ness'...
Too soft definitely not good, but too stiff just as bad...
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Have you changed your bindings? Are the new bindings “heel high” (the delta angle)? Some skiers are quite sensitive to the delta angle and if it is too large they will feel unbalanced towards the backseat. |
This. Acres and acres of exactly this. All it took to go from me being bad to being unbearable was adding a couple of spoilers that made the back of the boot a bit higher. Pushed my calf forward a bit, my reaction was to lean back a bit, everything went to toilet, literally. Tiny change really, but had a big impact. Tested it with a couple of shims under my heels, about 3mm thick. Put them in, made it so much worse, took them out, made it better, took spoilers off, made it normal again. Sometimes the answer is more forward lean, sometimes the answer is not, I don't understand the science but definitely start with this. Easy test is to ski without the pack and have somebody video you, then ski with the pack on video, and compare. You ideally need a shot of you from the side as you go into, through the middle of, and out of a turn, so somebody standing on the piste and you skiing around them as they follow seems to work to see how far forward or back you are.
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| Quote: |
Too soft definitely not good, but too stiff just as bad...
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perhaps worse
too soft and you can at least take particularly care to stay centred and avoid propping yourself on your tongues. Too stiff and you just can't stay in balance when you move up and down
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