 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The helos are out now as the sky has just cleared enough to allow them too fly. Rumours abound about mobile signals etc, as you say - hope.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The second Brit to go missing in France in a week.
Someone also froze in Risoul.
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Yes, hope indeed.
Umm. With another metre of snow on the top of it you might never get out of your cave again.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@James the Last, I did wonderful about that. But I reckon I'd take a chance with a snow cave rather than exposure. Maybe someone who is more versed in snow survival than I could advise.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| achilles wrote: |
| Maybe someone who is more versed in snow survival than I could advise. |
They'll probably find him in April.
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@davidof, I fear so now. There was a PGHM helo dangling an officer out on the winch, not sure if they were trying to find a weak mobile symbol or what. They were concentrating the search round the avalanche berm at the bottom of the Lavachet Wall, which is now full of snow.
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Yes, from what I understood he was doing a last run, maybe went off piste to profit from the powder, or got disorientated. If he had recco reflectors or even a dead mobile they will probably be able to find him with a Recco. The helicopters have recco antennas that have a good range.
Very unfortunate.
When I'm out I run my own app: RaTA which SMS the missus on regular intervals with my location. If anything it would save the rescue services some bother finding me.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Think if you click on his strava.com link that may be it
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I imagine a 'ski tracking' app with 'find my friends' function would offer a similar function.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Abit of a long shot but if anybody is in this area and has any news or sightings or any information no matter how small it may be of this man in question in this post I would be very grateful he is a family member the family do now expect the worse but you never know miracles may happen
Many thanks
And you a great forum fellas
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Pelle958, welcome to snowHeads. So sorry it is in these circumstances.
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@Pelle958, welcome to snowHeads, just so sorry this had to be your first post. My thoughts are with all the family and friends of this gentleman.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| @Pelle958, welcome to snowHeads, just so sorry this had to be your first post. My thoughts are with all the family and friends of this gentleman. |
+1
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Pelle958, I echo the sentiments above. I'll be in Tignes from tomorrow and we'll try to be as vigilant as possible.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Many thanks to you all
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Relevant point this season, as we take our loved ones out on the mountains in perhaps the most unpredictable conditions we have known (certainly since I started).
What basic measures do YOU plan to make, in order to survive, and/or to locate your party should the worst happen?
I confess, other than carrying an emergency blanket and water: nothing more. And we occasionally stray into trees or off the side of the piste. This year I am planning we need to be more responsible.
Thoughts and suggestions please.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Strax wrote: |
. And we occasionally stray into trees or off the side of the piste. This year I am planning we need to be more responsible.
Thoughts and suggestions please. |
Take an avalanche awareness course and carry a transceiver, probe and shovel.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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We were in Tignes over Christmas (staying in a chalet a couple of minutes from the Paquis chair as it happens). Our week, Christmas week, was mostly fantastic - blue skies, amazing snow - but we caught the beginning of the mega snow towards the end of the week.
We got out early on the Saturday morning, and left Chambéry only an hour late, but people we were with left it a couple of hours later and were nine hours on the mountain in a coach and then a further twenty-four hours in and around Chambéry and eventually Lyon. But I digress.
I did that last Paquis run of the day every day, after my wife and kids gave it neck, and I am mystified as to what happened to this poor guy. Basically, from memory (?), you go up the Paquis and come back down the Crocus onto the Trolles, if coming back into Lac, or you get some easy blues down into Val Claret. I can't imagine that he was going off piste - the conditions were not remotely conducive to that, it was proper blizzardy white-out when it started snowing, no trees or anything. If he was actually hit by an avalanche incursion onto the piste, surely they would know where to look?
Anyway, as davidof says, they will unfortunately maybe not find him now until the thaw. Poor chap, condolences to his family. A reminder to all of us that skiing and boarding are dangerous sports, and that the mountains are to be respected, even on marked runs.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| @Pelle958, welcome to snowHeads. So sorry it is in these circumstances. |
+1
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@northernsoulboy, I am stating the obvious, but in heavy snowfall, an unconscious person can be a couple of metres off the piste, covered in a few minutes and not at all visible after a few hours. We instill a sense of the dangers in our youngsters - even in brilliant sun and apparently fine weather, if no-one knows that you have just fallen off the easy tree-run, or have fallen while doing a short cut in the forest, skiing alone means that things can go from fine to exceptionally dangerous very quickly.
I hope that the piste teams in Tignes have news soon.
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If he wasn't an off piste skier then maybe in the bad visibility he just skied off the piste unintentionally and fell over into deep snow but couldn't get out. Remember Scarpa telling me something similar happened to a man on the last run in Zauchensee once. Boarders have similar problems when they fall head first into a tree well. Are the pistes still shut?
Not a substitute for a proper transceiver when going offpiste but another method of location ....
http://www.recco.com/the-recco-system
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I came to skiing later in life after a background of climbing on mountaineering. More than once I have reflected that I am perhaps a bit blasé about skiing because I am on a marked, patrolled piste having taken a lift up. But the reality is I am in the high alps, often higher than 3000m, in winter, with little spare clothing etc and often in pretty wild weather.
The reality is that if I was climbing firstly I wouldn’t be out in winter because I’m nowhere near skilled enough. Secondly even in summer I’d have a rucksack with clothes, food, emergency shelter etc. And finally I’d have turned back or not gone out in this weather.
Obviously piste skiing is not climbing but the mountains are skill a harsh environment that deserve respect.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@TommyJ, absolutely.
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| valais2 wrote: |
@northernsoulboy, I am stating the obvious, but in heavy snowfall, an unconscious person can be a couple of metres off the piste, covered in a few minutes and not at all visible after a few hours. We instill a sense of the dangers in our youngsters - even in brilliant sun and apparently fine weather, if no-one knows that you have just fallen off the easy tree-run, or have fallen while doing a short cut in the forest, skiing alone means that things can go from fine to exceptionally dangerous very quickly.
I hope that the piste teams in Tignes have news soon. |
Yep, that's true - I'd forgotten that the alarm wasn't raised until much later.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@northernsoulboy, ...relying on the press stories of course, which may or may not be accurate, but it looks as if the alarm was raised around 10pm - around 6 hours from last sighting. Regrettably, that's a long time.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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We were out in the 3V once (staying in Brides). One day we went over to the VT and the fourth valley and in the afternoon it turned into a real pea souper. When we got to the top of Mont de la Chambre there was hardly anyone about (as most had quite wisely) turned in for the day. There was a bloke by himself and as he skied off my mate said only half joking, I wonder if we'll ever see him again. We had to loop each other skiing down so they would could see the next piste marker as it was so bad. We were really conscious and concerned about going off the side of the piste as we were aware there was some drop offs. We were mighty relieved when we were sat on the Olympic gondola back to town. Ever since then I've wondered about people getting lost or stuck in poor weather. Gives me the willies thinking about it. Sympathies to this poor man and his family.
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@Pelle958, very sad and difficult for all concerned. On the day in question we had used the Paquis left around 30 mins before the gentleman accessed it. A couple of things to bear in mind. Whilst it was not a white-out, visibility was not good. Also notwithstanding that it was in any event snowing all day some of the pistes in the area had not been pisted to their full width. The second issue would add to any route finding problems particularly if someone was not familiar with the area. In those circumstances it is quite easy to hit a snow bank at the side of the piste and topple over ending up off the piste. However, clearly we do not know if such things played any part. We did see a pisteur combing part of the area on the Trolles side with an avalanche dog, later in the week. An awful lot more snow has of course fallen over the last few days and whilst visibility has been good for the last 2 days, the area has been simply blanketed. I hope you get some news soon.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Layne wrote: |
| ...Ever since then I've wondered about people getting lost or stuck in poor weather. Gives me the willies thinking about it. Sympathies to this poor man and his family. |
+100
Been there myself, on my own in a whiteout storm, and will never forget it.
Even though I knew the area very well, I was completely disoriented even after a little visibility returned.
There but for grace go I; could’ve easily been me that day.
Poor chap 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Although far less likely to happen in the UK, as a 17 year old, I'd been to work in Newcastle one Saturday just before Christmas, and stayed overnight with a work colleague to go out in town. I even got a lift to the bus station with her father the following morning, but when my bus didn't show up, instead of waiting aroung in the cold, I went to a Christmas service at the nearby cathedral and left in time for my next one, only to discover that up in the wilds, it was snowing very very hard, and all the buses that went trhough my village were cancelled. (it was just very cold in Newcastle). I tried to contact parents at a call box but couldn't get a connection, so decided to take another bus to the nearest place to home and try from there. I got another bus there to within 2 miles and walked there with a lady and her 5 year old daughter.
Friends' Dad had even come back to get me after my parents rang him, but didn't find me. Luckily I was never alone, and made it home, but parents were frantic. At the time I couldn't see what all the fuss was about.
Thoughts with all the family. x
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Poster: A snowHead
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| davidof wrote: |
| When I'm out I run my own app: RaTA which SMS the missus on regular intervals with my location. If anything it would save the rescue services some bother finding me. |
I just found out recently after having updated to the latest version that Whatsapp can now automatically send your live location to a loved one / friend (sorry if old news!). You can set it to make your live location available to a contact for periods or 15 mins, 1 or 8 hours... Not sure of the exact mechanics but I think when the contact requests your location (during the live tracking period) the sender's Whatsapp sends the latest known location to the contact. Obviously no substitute for other precautions and no idea if this would have made a difference in this sad instance.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Ski lots wrote: |
| @Pelle958, very sad and difficult for all concerned. On the day in question we had used the Paquis left around 30 mins before the gentleman accessed it. A couple of things to bear in mind. Whilst it was not a white-out, visibility was not good. Also notwithstanding that it was in any event snowing all day some of the pistes in the area had not been pisted to their full width. The second issue would add to any route finding problems particularly if someone was not familiar with the area. In those circumstances it is quite easy to hit a snow bank at the side of the piste and topple over ending up off the piste. However, clearly we do not know if such things played any part. We did see a pisteur combing part of the area on the Trolles side with an avalanche dog, later in the week. An awful lot more snow has of course fallen over the last few days and whilst visibility has been good for the last 2 days, the area has been simply blanketed. I hope you get some news soon. |
Thank you to everyone who has taken time out to reply to my post but sadly still no joy in finding John or his whereabouts he's been missing 5 days now so it's not looking very good for a happy ending his last gps trace was exiting the chairs but that's it nothing else apart from we're doing what they can to find him which the family of John are very grateful to everybody involved in the search but sadly with every minute that passes the outlook of him being found alive is slim but it's the not knowing which is the hardest thing to come to terms with especially to his grandmother of 91 that brought him up from a very young age and who is expecting him to visit after he returns home this Saturday
Once again thank you everybody @snowheads for all your responses at this truly heartbreaking time
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| valais2 wrote: |
| @northernsoulboy, ...relying on the press stories of course, which may or may not be accurate, but it looks as if the alarm was raised around 10pm - around 6 hours from last sighting. Regrettably, that's a long time. |
I think this highlights a problem. Just when do you call the emergency services? The generally quoted figure for survival if buried is twenty minutes although some have survived longer.
In this case the lift was open and presumably so were some of the pistes, so I feel that what he did from the little we know could not be regarded as reckless. I doubt that any of us would want to raise a false alarm when you consider the effort and manpower involved in a search. I think the earliest I would get concerned would be after an hour as he could have ended up in the wrong place or simply gone to a bar etc. Even after an hour it would probably have been too late in this case given the twenty minute statistic and they would not even know where to start looking. It's not like many avalanche situations where other people may have seen the slide and gone to the right search area immediately.
I think he was very unlucky and was very unlikely to be rescued even if the alarm was raised much earlier.
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@Pelle958, I am sorry if the timing of my post was upsetting. I had no idea you were posting at more or less the same time.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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It's ok your post says exactly what has been going through my head since we found out he was missing we are just trying to stay optimistic on his safe return for his grandmother but deep down we know he has gone but at least he went out doing what he loved
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@Pelle958, sympathies to all family and friends.
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| richjp wrote: |
| valais2 wrote: |
| @northernsoulboy, ...relying on the press stories of course, which may or may not be accurate, but it looks as if the alarm was raised around 10pm - around 6 hours from last sighting. Regrettably, that's a long time. |
I think this highlights a problem. Just when do you call the emergency services? The generally quoted figure for survival if buried is twenty minutes although some have survived longer.
In this case the lift was open and presumably so were some of the pistes, so I feel that what he did from the little we know could not be regarded as reckless. I doubt that any of us would want to raise a false alarm when you consider the effort and manpower involved in a search. I think the earliest I would get concerned would be after an hour as he could have ended up in the wrong place or simply gone to a bar etc. |
Had exactly this happen in Val or Courchevel or somewhere many many years ago. Bunch of us all skiing together, one guy went up for the last run, never made it to the bar. We only noticed he was missing about five pints in. This is pre mobile phones. His best mate went back to the chalet, no sign. Went on a tour of other bars and eventually found him tucked away somewhere with a girl he'd met. We were cross with him, but he was young and stupid (we all were). No-one even suggested calling the cops, though I suppose we would have done so eventually - probably at around 10pm as in this case.
Pelle958, the story about his granny is very sad. The whole thing is.
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@Pelle958, Having lost a child up a mountain for several hours and thankfully found him safe early evening I can only begin to imagine what your family must be going through. My thoughts and sympathy are with you.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Pelle958, ...there will be difficult practicalities around these circumstances, repatriation etc, there will be people on here who will offer supportive advice and guidance should you need it. Do use the support of insurance companies etc to the full; the local gendarmerie also can be very good. There may be uk consular contacts in the valley - we have one in our neighbourhood in the Valais. If you have not done it already do find out if John had insurance and with which company.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Fri 12-01-18 23:36; edited 1 time in total
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@Pelle958, I'm so sorry for what you and your family are going through. I will be in the area the week after next and John will be in my thoughts.
I know how easy it is to take a wrong turn in deep snow and poor visibility, it happened me over New Year. It was an area I wasn't familiar with, visibility was awful, I'd been talking safety to my son prior to the run, we were going very slowly piste marker by piste marker, and didn't notice the piste take an almost 90 degree turn. We skied straight through 2 piste markers which were about the width apart as the successive ones had seemed to be, not realising they were both on the same side of the piste. There was deep snow everywhere so that wasn't a clue we'd gone off piste. We were lucky. It could have ended very differently, particularly as there wouldn't have been anyone else to raise the alarm. Not for a few days anyhow. Wow, that's a sobering thought.
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