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The Arlberg Snow Report 2018/2019 (October 23---Nov Snowfall higher up!!)

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Reporting 25cms on Kriegerhorn

https://kriegerhorn.skiarlberg.at/
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Langerzug wrote:
Decisionday St.Anton-Kappl: 30 November 2018

http://www.tt.com/politik/landespolitik/14868274-91/zusammenschluss-kapplst.-anton-geht-ins-finale.csp


The hearing will between 27-30th and a additonal opinion which has been obtained by Bundesverwaltungsgericht (Federal admin Court in Vienna) will be heard.


I think the decision will come some time after but maybe not even this year but who knows...

Hopefully Never !!
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Given the Zürs bottleneck since Flexenbahn, the standing/importance of Arlberg in Austria, and the current conservative government in Vienna, I think a positive decision is quite likely.
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Langerzug wrote:
Given the Zürs bottleneck since Flexenbahn, the standing/importance of Arlberg in Austria, and the current conservative government in Vienna, I think a positive decision is quite likely.


Positive as in "For the UVP Campaingners" ? Very Happy Very Happy
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Quote:

Given the Zürs bottleneck since Flexenbahn

@Langerzug, How is that relevant?......its not a bottleneck either if you know when to go.
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@Markymark29,
relevance: hopefully the new Rendl-Kappl area will pull more St.Antonians in that direction instead of Zürs-Lech. As always with bottlenecks it needs just a slight lowering of traffic to make them go away.
I'm not going into the rather egomaniac 'if you know when to go' discussion again. I'm preferring a bit of a wider scope. After 25 years I know my Arlberg. Early and later on a day, west and east. Flats and steeps, groomed and ungroomed. Flexenbahn currently is not good for the Valfagehr-Madloch area , period.


Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 1-10-18 16:13; edited 1 time in total
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@Langerzug, We'll agree to differ re Flexenbahn then, after 30 years me too Laughing ......also I'd not be going anywhere near Kappl link, I want Malfontal to stay just as it is, unspoilt.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Markymark29, ever been to the Malfontal really?
The cliché 'Malfontal' is being used by many in a rather dramatic way. And actually, skitouring/freeriding can be very disturbing for wild life too (the 'es ist auch dein Wald' theme)
The vast majority of the Tyrol and Vorarlberg-landscape is still unspoiled. And please don't be like stanton, suggesting Arlberg is still all about unspoiled skitouring and freeriding. It is not; Arlberg is Austria's touristic powerhouse
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@Langerzug, was there in Malfontal 4 weeks ago mountainbiking and hiking, also in winter....I’ll leave it there, also Stanton’s views aren’t mine.
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@Markymark29,
Flexenbahn and Rendl-Kappl have always been one project
I think the Kappl-people deserve their Auenfeldjet..... Cool
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I suspect the answer will be in favour of the development. There was a decision recently to allow a skiing development near Zell am See. The court decided the economic benefits outweighed the environmental issues, basically the same issues as here.

It is a difficult one (said as a member of the Alpenverein). It is easy for outsiders to demand a stop to all developments but it is not our livelihood. Yes there are some who have made lots of money out of the tourist thing but most dont. I do like walking in undeveloped valleys and peaks but at the same time that is most of them (certainly in the area around St. A.) and can see the case for a few more lifts. The benefit here is mainly not to St A but to Kappl.

Cant see what this has to do with the Flexenbahn, but I suppose any excuse to get out the old hobby horse wink
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
St.Anton is going to pay 2/3 of the new connection. So they must be seeing a benefit, or rather, it is part of the grander plan for the 'new' Arlberg, in which all resorts are partaking of course.
The connection to Kappl will finally make Rendl a serious area, which (much) more guests staying in St.Anton will consider skiing, unlike up till now. And these people will not go to Flexenbahn, they will be having lunch in Kappl.
Currently it sometimes looks and feels as if all of St.Anton is flooding to Zürs.
The difference will be substantial I think/hope
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It's all about marketing IMHO for visiting tourists, if they link up with Kappl I suspect they'll have "better" stats than the mega French resorts like Trois Vallees in terms of lifts, skiable pistes etc etc.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@kitenski, I think you‘re right. It’s similar to the Zell link up to Saalbach. In many cases these involve lengthy lift journeys (such as the link between Lech and Warth). Not that convenient, but it does allow publicity boasts about the size of skiable area etc. A statistic that would be at least as interesting would be the increase or otherwise in hotel rooms in resorts and therefore the numbers of people using the system. Come to think of it Ski Arlberg could presumably provide some interesting information on the increase or otherwise in ski ticket sales and or traffic on the lift network over the last few years.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

http://youtube.com/v/6YJfjjetwDM
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 Poster: A snowHead
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@kitenski, Thats exactly what it is, doesn't necessarily make it the best solution though does it? St Anton has a core of ambitious business people including the Tourist Office who are keen to market the town as being the Best in The Alps, alongside Chamonix Mt Blanc, Lech Zurs, Cortina etc, no mention of 3V and EK in the list.

https://www.stantonamarlberg.com/en/footer/best-of-the-alps

They want to be the biggest and best in Europe, and beyond - a true rival to places like Vail Resorts etc, and there's no shame in that I guess from a local business perspective. What is undeniable though is that it will put a growing strain on the towns infrastructure, it could also mean that places like Landeck (near Kappl) could become satellites (already supply much of the workers in resort), so before too long, say 20 years horizon you could have Kloesterle am Arlberg (perhaps linking to Montafon in due course), Warth/ Schroeken to Bregenzerwald other resorts, to Kappl (and who knows potentially Samnaun via Ischgl) all linked, and the comparative wilnerness areas such as Rossfall, Maroikopf/ Langen, Malfontal, Hinterrendl, Madloch all opened up for piste skiing. That will suit the majority I guess, all i'm concerned about is that the Alpine wilderness is getting eaten into and once these areas are gone, and the wildlife that lives within them has no sanctuary, its gone forever. It'll potentially happen whatever we say and do, so best to enjoy it as it is, and leave others to worry about the consequences I guess.....


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 2-10-18 9:35; edited 1 time in total
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Whatever happens with Projekt Dias..


Verbinding Ski Arlberg - Kappl - Silvretta Arena from wintersport.nl
https://vimeo.com/147732741

It cannot start until Kappl renew Diabahn.

to a new

10 person Gondola (Ein-Seil-Umlaufbahn)

and this can only be financed by the Banks if the Rendl Project get the go ahead...
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@Markymark29,
Sorry, but Klösterle to Montafon, Schröcken to Bregenzerwald, Kappl to Samnaun, Maroi, ....all nonsense and just internet-forum humbug
Best of Alps is not about biggest...3V is not in it.
It is about classic wintersport-resorts.
E.g. Seefeld and Megeve are also in it. It is a marketing-tool for the American (up) market, looking for 'old-world' skiing

Rendl-Kappl is about:
-Kappl trying to stay alive
-equalizing the Flexenbahn/Alpe Rauz/Zürs/Madloch bottleneck, maintaining the upmarket ("More space, more time'') positioning of Lech-Zürs (I'm convinced this was planned ahead)
-St.Anton getting more pleasant blue's and red's, easier skiing geared to the main target group. (you and I might not need this, but that's not very interesting business-wise)
-And yes, trying to be the largest.

We -lowlanders- are a bit hypocritical. We destroyed our own nature, whilst The Alps largely are still unspoiled.
Official policy in Austria is: no new ski resorts, only 'logical' connections between existing areas.
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@Langerzug, .......read my comment again, Best in The Alps isn't about biggest, I agree. They definitely do have aspirations regarding size though as a secondary goal, and it's their call not ours wink

You may have spoilt your own nature, that's your doing, plenty nature left in UK btw.
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@Markymark29,
It is not 'our doing'. It is just that we are with many. And we want a pleasant life.
Without skiing/tourism, the Alps would by now be largely inhabited. Life (read: farming) was very hard up there. And uneconomical since many years
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@Markymark29, I am dubious that there will be much appetite for expansion beyond the Kappl link. I am sure there are some in the various tourist offices and Rathaus in both the Stanzertal and Paznauntal who would like to see more links. However given both the long process involved, multiple court cases etc and the issues of finance (especially with shorter and less snowy winters in prospect) it will be very hard to do, there would have to be a very very good economic case.

I can see the See / Serfaus and Kloesterle / Montafon links could happen. Kloesterle to Stuben is very unlikely as there is a protected wilderness area in between. Kappl to Ischgl seems to be in the realm of fantasy.


@Langerzug, I dont think it has anything to do with keeping the plebs out of Lech wink does anyone in St Anton care about that? It is more that by increasing the size of the Rendl area St Anton can claim to offer a decent skiing experience to those who are happy with some gentle poodling about on blues and reds as opposed to be worrying about steep, moguly, crowded home runs that are typical of the resort at the moment. You can attract a wider variety of high paying tourists.
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@munich_irish, your view of Arlberg is a bit simple I'm afraid. All is intertwined, especially the liftcompanies, each holding shares in the other(s). Also the Flexenbahn is not primarily St.Anton owned, it is owned by Zürs and Stuben. With Zürs being governed by Lech. And Stuben part of Klösterle
The Flexenbahn is completely in Vorarlberg, not in Tyrol.
You know Valluga actually is shared by St.Anton and Lech, the border being exactly there at 2811 m? And that the Zugertal, starting right behind Zug-village, which is part of Lech, is governed by Klösterle?
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@Langerzug, I am aware of all that. The primary driver behind all this is making money not the convenience of those who actually visit the place. Any extension to the Rendl skiing is of no interest to those whose primary business in is Warth and little to those in Lech / Zuers beyond the general "biggest ski area in Austria" tourist office blah. Similarly the lift down to Schroecken is of no interest to anyone in St Christoph or St Anton. If they can sell more ski passes at a higher cost then the holding company benefits ie all the individual lift owners whether private or Gemeinde owned benefit too.

I am sure some of the hoteliers in Lech and Zuers think there are now too many people in "their" resort and would prefer pander to their high paying customers with shorter lift queues etc. Its a bit late for all that now, no more the exclusive hide away of times gone by (if it ever really was like that) but a modern, fairly brash, crowded resort. The future (not sure I approve) is bigger, more people and more expensive. The proliferation of 5 star hotels in Oberlech is another example of the same sort of thing.
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@munich_irish, Fair comments - the only thing I'd add is that it is still possible to ski Lech/ Zurs on a reasonable budget without having to stay in 5* hotels and mixing it with team Bogner. We now tend to stay 3* Pension in Lech in mid January (cheaper and more convenient than Warth) and use that as a base to ski Warth/ Zurs area, and then hop over to St Anton for week 2 and ski Rendl/ Stuben and all in between. There's still plenty of options for doing it at a reasonable cost. It really is quite funny seeing all the fancy folks in Lech/ Zurs posing about the town rather than skiing/ boarding, only place we've ever been asked to leave the bar at 18.30 because we were still in ski gear and boots, and presumably bringing the tone down a bit in our naff goretex shells, not a faux fur hood trim or reconstructed mouth pout between us! Laughing
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@munich_irish
sorry, but I'm inclined to think your reasoning is mostly born out of Lech-bashing, and thus rather nonsensical. Especially when saying: "The primary driver behind all this is making money not the convenience of those who actually visit the place". Lech's 'convenience' has made Lech rich, and the Lecher are very well aware of that, and they want to keep it that way.

Rendl-Kappl will help relieving Zürs for sure. This plus a solution to Madloch will resolve the current issue of crowds in Zürs. And in the Lech-Oberlech skiarea, crowds have never been an issue.
The "proliferation" of 5***** hotels is in Oberlech not as dramatic as you are suggesting. These were 4S**** already.

But in reality as @Markymark29 indicates, whilst there are some brash aspects, Lech is still remarkably subdued. Lech is not St. Moritz or Courchevel 1850 (whilst having more 5***** hotels Very Happy )


Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Tue 2-10-18 15:53; edited 2 times in total
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@munich_irish,

The Primary driver behind all this is Kappl ..It is a Kappl iniative they approached St. Anton more than 15 years ago.

They cannot survive let alone grown without directly being connected to a Big Area.

Ischgl is off the cards or at least years away...
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@Langerzug, Not Lech bashing at all, the village has clearly done very well from skiing and is a nice place. Cant say I find the whole designer ski kit, Strolz boots, 5 star hotel thing etc attractive but in general that can be avoided. I dont think there is any "solution" to the crowds, replace a slow 2 seater chair with a fast 8 seater (nice warm seats for the Lech clientel wink ) solves the queue for the lift but means crowds on the piste. Its not just Madloch, what about the queues at the Ruefikopfbahn, you can go on endlessly.

The more lifts, hotels and apartments that are built the more people will come and the poorer the actual skiing experience will be especially in peak season. stanton would say abandon the pistes and the lifts but if too many folk do that, not only will the accident statistics go up but it then starts to detract from that experience too. Look at Venice, a beautiful place slowly being destroyed by tourism. Getting the right balance is probably impossible. At the moment there are still plenty of wild places in the alps, I dont think a few more lifts and pistes will change that very much. However I dont think the changes in prospect will bring back the sort of ski resort you liked so much, the desire for more money on the part of the locals mean change (not knocking them I am sure most of us would do the same in their place). Whether that change is good or bad is a fairly subjective thing.
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@munich_irish,

The number of people (on slopes) is strictly controled

There are limits on Lech etc

This is not an issue..

Lets just ban Pisten Bullys ...that will be a fanrastic start to regulating people flow..

The Arlberg has to many beds as it ia they cannot fill...

Its a myth the resort is Full.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Tiroler Newsfeed this morning saying that IBK Airport is to build a second terminal by 2022 and increase flights and carriers in/ out, thats got to be a good thing.
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Any news on Steissbachtal opening for 2018/19?
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@skilegs, Snow depth dependent i'd think - long term av barriers likely going in, but it'll take years. Short term i'd think they'll open it until it becomes dangerous and then revert to like last season. I know it was contentious but safety first.
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@Markymark29, agreed. One flight from Schottland per week kinda sucks
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@boabski, I've never yet flown in or out of IBK in all the times i've been, just nothing workable from the north either at anything like a proper daily service with useable times. EJ do a weekend one I think but its mad prices and times arent workable for a 8 days ski trip. I really dont see why EJ and/ or Jet2 couldnt do a 4-5 days service per week from Leeds and/ or Manchester into IBK, they'd make it pay i'd think.

They are massively missing a trick I feel currently, OK its doable from MUC and ZRH but it's lots of hassle, and cost with hotels/ long transfers.
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@Markymark29, IBK isn't that practical from London airports either. No real schedule compatible with weekender travel. I suspect the trick is you need a reliable business route to fill the opposite legs hence ZRH and GVA and MXP are good for late afternoon/evening flights. INN just doesn't have enough international business going on.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, Yeah I get that re business travel but Jet2 seem to make it work to Salzburg and Chambery (or they used to anyway, dont know if they still do that run) - so an early drop into IBK early on a Saturday and same Sunday evening would work for them you'd think if they could get slots. Too busy doing city breaks Palma, Prague and Nice etc I guess to think about skiers.....they call themselves "The Skiers Airline" and only do GVA properly.
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@Markymark29, @Dave of the Marmottes, @boabski,
I feel for you Brexies. Very Happy
We can choose from many flights from Amsterdam, Rotterdam and Eindhoven. And back. Very good schedule too in general.
Transavia clearly has no issues with Innsbruck.
(must admit that after arrival it always pleases us to see our fellow countrymen going east, direction Westendorf and Gerlos, and us going west Blush )
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BA have a decent schedule from Heathrow but I need to fly from Glasgow or Edinburgh. easyJet do a decent schedule to Munich from Edinburgh but as you all know Innsbruck is just perfect for the Arlberg.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@boabski, we used to do MUC Friday evening and back Sunday with hotel stop overs in IBK on way out and MUC airport on way back but traffic and trains a nightmare. So we now go ZRH and train.

There’s a Sunday evening EJ IBK/ MAN which is OK but personally I don’t want to be arriving into IBK on a Sunday afternoon and miss 2 days skiing.
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@Markymark29, what flights/hotels are you booked into for next season and room for a small one if I can get permission to come along??
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Great News:
New Madlochbahn will be constructed summer 2019, up and running for season 2019/20
Going to be a 10 pax gondola ("EUB"), with similar entrance system as Trittkopf, starting in Zürs, with midstation at Seekopf, and further up to Madloch.
The current 4 pax chair to Seekopf will stay.
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