 Poster: A snowHead
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@pam w, for reference - I am not disputing the point that seasonnaires can live a nice life. I've never done a ski season but I've done the whole cruise ship thing which is not dissimilar - ideal for people with low commitments, live on the ship, and yes my hourly rate was literally half what it'd be in the UK but since I didn't pay rent or food, I had a cabin steward to do all my chores for me, and I could buy beers and single malts for a pound a go in the ship's mess, it was fairly irrelevant and whilst my 4-6 month contracts at sea were relatively unpleasant, it was offset by a relatively hedonistic lifestyle of excess drinking and promiscuity in all of the world's finest destinations for OAPs.
I do absolutely get the attraction.
But, just because you do not feel particularly shat on it doesn't mean you're not being underpaid or exploited. Just because you have a smile on your face it doesn't mean that somebody isn't screwing you. My posts aren't claiming that there is some cover-up and chalet hosts are kept in dungeons by mutant lizards and only allowed out to go to work. I'm just saying that they should be paid properly, regardless of whether or not they're enjoying themselves, because in civilised places like the EU we are all meant to have that right.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@dp, having done the season thing and with friends who’ve done the cruise ship thing, I think you worked really very much harder in really much less pleasant conditions than we did ...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
in civilised places like the EU we are all meant to have that right.
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but plenty don't - and plenty in the UK, too. It's been an odd corner of the European employment world, for a long time, the world of cheap British chalets and their staff - and I don't disagree with the changes being made. But arguably the only people who have been losing out, really, are local people or East Europeans who would have competed successfully for the jobs had they been advertised competitively. Once the anomalies which have created the "British chalet" model are ironed out the kids who would once have had memorable seasons working in chalets will be amongst the losers.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| dp wrote: |
You may not realise it but there's a mighty big perk with 9-5 jobs too -. But people tend to overlook these perks because they don't involve sun loungers, cocktails or casual sex. |
You're saying you can't get a sunbed, cocktail and an STD on any Thursday night in Croydon? 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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And the guests who enjoyed staying in them - as we did. And generally found the staff pretty good, all things considered.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
You're saying you can't get a sunbed, cocktail and an STD on any Thursday night in Croydon?
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Yeah but I earn more than £1.33/hr.... 
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| dp wrote: |
You may not realise it but there's a mighty big perk with 9-5 jobs too -. But people tend to overlook these perks because they don't involve sun loungers, cocktails or casual sex. |
You're saying you can't get a sunbed, cocktail and an STD on any Thursday night in Croydon? |
Most nights of the week, if you try hard enough... I expect.
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| midgetbiker wrote: |
| Quote: |
It is about unfair competition for local businesses. I don't think the French Govt. really gives much of a poo-poo about chalet hosts.
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Agreed and that's why the minimum wage applied should be the local one, tax and social charge on that, but then a degree of post tax deduction is in my opinion ok so long as it's all clear at the outset (and you have the choice to reject say the accommodation). |
If we stick with France then there is an allowance for accommodation and meals already under French law, it is a small one though. Still one TO I know had staff sleeping in the cupboard under the stairs - "think Harry Potter", they told the hapless transfer rep! The French minimum wage is similar to the UK one. Honestly I don't know how British TOs and chalet companies have been getting away without paying the minimum wage or anything like it for so long under any legislation. I guess they just fall through the cracks.
The big target of the changes were Eastern Europeans where minimum wages, if they exist at all, are very low. So you could have Romanian builders or delivery drivers living onsite and working for 200 euros per month plus meals. For delivery drivers there is no control over hours for the size of vans they drive, there are cases of people doing 14 hour days, 6 days per week.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| dp wrote: |
| Mike Pow wrote: |
Just did a quick job search on google for Head Chef positions in my area - Llandeilo, Carmarthenshire, Wales
This came up
Head Chef
Emlyn Hotel - Newcastle Emlyn
£25,000 - £30,000 a year
https://www.indeed.co.uk/cmp/Cawdor-Collection/jobs/Head-Chef-3a9f9f4ac96e935a?q=Chef&vjs=3
Even taking the maximum wage on offer, this job works out at £457 per week take home
Subtract housing, bills, food & drink, and recreation from that and it doesn't look too different from the weekly earnings of a chalet host but for considerably more work and responsibility.
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I don't know how you figure more work, I doubt the chef position is 2 shifts a day, 7 days a week. |
I'll help you out.
I included a link to the job. When you click on the link it opens a new tab in your browser which gives more information about the job
I did this for you and here are the responsibilites of the job
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Responsibilities
· Control and direct the food preparation process and any other relative activities
· Construct menus with new or existing culinary creations ensuring the variety and quality of the servings
· Approve and “polish” dishes before they reach the customer
· Plan orders of equipment or ingredients according to identified shortages
· Arrange for repairs when necessary
· Remedy any problems or defects
· Be fully in charge of hiring, managing and training kitchen staff
· Oversee the work of subordinates
· Estimate staff’s workload and compensations
· Maintain records of payroll and attendance
· Comply with nutrition and sanitation regulations and safety standards
· Foster a climate of cooperation and respect between co-oworkers
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That was considerably more than I did as chalet host.
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| dp wrote: |
I was just stating that just because there is a long queue of people who appear to want to be exploited, and a long queue of people who've been exploited before and appear to want to do it again, it doesn't mean that the exploitation becomes acceptable.
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You could argue that the entire 'minimum wage' thing is exploitation. Before it, people got paid by merit, now millions of people are forced to work only for minimum wage, regardless of ability. Socialist would argue that minimum wage is a safety net for low paid workers. It is not a safety net, it is an entire wage class and millions of people in many industries (hospitality, farming, retail, blue collar manufacturing) have no choice but to work for it... because that's all that any such jobs pay.
No wonder young people clear off to a ski resort for the winter... when you look at the alternative.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Mike Pow, my brother in law is head chef at a private school in Surrey. He earns £22,000pa. After rent, household bills and travel, he has around £100 pm disposable income.
I have often suggested he do a season but he thinks he is too old at 48.
I know what I would do.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
Before it, people got paid by merit
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LOL. Utter rubbish. Nurses being a case in point. People have been screwed since year dot.
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@bar shaker working full time for £22k in Surrey - if you have life commitments that would actually permit doing a season - makes you a bit of a mug really.
Again, to repeat my point for those who'd still rather go 'yeah but' rather than actually reading it... shitty pay at a private school in Surrey doesn't excuse grossly under paying chalet staff.
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You know it makes sense.
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| dp wrote: |
| king key wrote: |
@dp, I've seen some stretching of comparisons of scenarios but your one takes some beating.
Comparing in any way a seasonaire doing some work chalet work in the Alps to people being ]'human trafficked in oxygen deprived lorry trailers, barely floating boats in rough seas; crossing several continents, living in fear as they're handled by gun-toting traffickers' is quite laughable. 
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That's because I didn't compare it, you total moron.
I said that the fact there's a demand for something doesn't automatically make it ethical. |
Of course you were using it to buttress your argument, which is pretty thin at best. If the chalet girls/boys didn't want to not it, they wouldn't. This, 'they are all being exploited' nonsense is mainly in your head. No one had their arms behind their back and made them do anything they didn't want to, they are always free to go home if it doesn't work out, as some do. Sure they sign a contract but if they are being treated unfairly the contract won't hold up anyway. You're being your own stereotype scouser that thinks everyone has it in for them. And I didn't even need to call you a moron.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| bar shaker wrote: |
| dp wrote: |
I was just stating that just because there is a long queue of people who appear to want to be exploited, and a long queue of people who've been exploited before and appear to want to do it again, it doesn't mean that the exploitation becomes acceptable.
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You could argue that the entire 'minimum wage' thing is exploitation. Before it, people got paid by merit, now millions of people are forced to work only for minimum wage, regardless of ability. Socialist would argue that minimum wage is a safety net for low paid workers. It is not a safety net, it is an entire wage class and millions of people in many industries (hospitality, farming, retail, blue collar manufacturing) have no choice but to work for it... because that's all that any such jobs pay.
No wonder young people clear off to a ski resort for the winter... when you look at the alternative. |
My first job paid £2.88 an hour, it was a stepping stone job just for experience on my CV - minimum wage came in about 18 months after i finished there. Minimum wage would have been a payrise of epic proportions, however the price increases that followed would have meant i’d find it more of a struggle than i did when on less than £100 a week.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| RichClark wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| dp wrote: |
You may not realise it but there's a mighty big perk with 9-5 jobs too -. But people tend to overlook these perks because they don't involve sun loungers, cocktails or casual sex. |
You're saying you can't get a sunbed, cocktail and an STD on any Thursday night in Croydon? |
Most nights of the week, if you try hard enough... I expect. |
Doubt you have to try that hard really...
Having done 6 seasons, 3 of them for chalet companies, the others for hotels, I think the title of the thread sums it up pretty well, small to medium chalet and 'club hotel' operators will not be able to afford to keep running these operations, staff costs will absolutely kill profit at current prices and they won't be able to significantly increase prices and expect to retain customers.
The low-medium price chalet industry will collapse, with only luxury being able to survive and absorb costs. The chalets will end up vacant for a couple of years while the owners mistakenly believe they can charge 'catered chalet' rent prices to TOs that want to use them for self catered options, opportunists will probably take over rent and start subletting on AirBnB.
I'd expect a pretty sharp fall in British season staff numbers and companies will definitely become more picky with staff, so no more gap year kids.
'Cheap' ski holidays will be harder to find so the market will shrink and go back to being more elitist.
All sounds great.
For what its worth I was paid the following for each of my seasons -
99-00 (hotel, Meribel) £100pw full area lift pass bought by staff then refunded at end of season plus bonus paid, bunk bed, room w 3 others in basement of hotel, shared bathroom with 22, all food
00-01 (club hotel, Le Corbier) £60pw local area lift pass, shared apartment with one other guy (bunk bed again) all food, £20 pw bar tab
01-02 (club hotel, St Martin) £60pw local area lift pass (which in 3vs is lame), shared room w one other guy (no bunk!) apartment shared w 5 others, 1 bathroom, all food, £20 pw bar tab
04-05 (chalet co, Les Arcs) £120pw full area pass, shared room (bunk again) in apartment with 4 (2 in the hallway) all food
05-06 (chalet co, La Tania) £120pw full area pass, shared room (yep, bunk) in apartement with 5 (1 in lounge) all food
07 (chalet co, St Anton) £150pw summer lift & pool pass, own room and bathroom in chalet, all food
all 6 days a week (and all full day changeovers)
1st and last seasons I actually managed to save some money (the others I ended up in debt) but genuinely never felt 'exploited' as such and didn't give inferior service just because i was on a low wage. The motivation for people doing these jobs is of course the access to the skiing, if they think by changing the rules it will give people better work conditions and attract locals to do the jobs they are hugely mistaken, all it will do is significant damage to the British side of the industry.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Easy solution will be to send these staff through a temp agency or become self employed like so many gig economies.
I wonder what a chalet staff contract looks like compared to ehat is being reported to HMRC.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Not to get too stuck on this point, but really:
| Mike Pow wrote: |
· Control and direct the food preparation process and any other relative activities
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You would do this as a chalet chef. It's called "making dinner".
| Quote: |
· Construct menus with new or existing culinary creations ensuring the variety and quality of the servings
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This is often set by the chalet operator, but frankly that's not necessarily a good thing as I think many chalet chefs would enjoy creating and serving their own dishes.
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· Approve and “polish” dishes before they reach the customer
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You would do this as a chalet chef. It's called looking at the plate before you serve it and ensure it doesn't look like a dogs dinner.
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· Plan orders of equipment or ingredients according to identified shortages
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You would do this as a chalet chef. You would notice that you have only have enough potatoes for half the group and that you need to buy more; or you would observe that you're down to 5 or 6 logs and you need more firewood.
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· Arrange for repairs when necessary
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You would do some of this as a chalet chef - reporting faults to your boss.
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· Remedy any problems or defects
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Plainly, as a chalet chef, you'd try to fix any little problems you could quick fix yourself, before referring them onto the management. We all do that.
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· Be fully in charge of hiring, managing and training kitchen staff
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OK you wouldn't do that.
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· Oversee the work of subordinates
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As the skilled chef in the chalet, you'd likely oversee the work of the assistance you have.
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· Estimate staff’s workload and compensations
· Maintain records of payroll and attendance |
OK you wouldn't do that.
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· Comply with nutrition and sanitation regulations and safety standards
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You'd do this as a chalet chef. It's called washing your hands, keeping things clean, and not giving your guests the brown version of niagara falls.
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· Foster a climate of cooperation and respect between co-oworkers
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Hopefully you'd do this too unless you really had a penchant for spending 5 months with people who all hated each other.
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So I think 'considerably more' might be a bit of a stretch. Just because it's in formal job speak in the JD, it doesn't make it stuff you wouldn't normally be doing. It's just chefing, plus basic management skills which all managers need to do.
Considering it pays about £9/hour MORE than the chalet chefs I was referring to, I think that's not bad for a bit of management.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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posted in error
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Do any of these chefs have to clean toilets?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
@jedster, did you feel you were paid what you were worth?
Did you feel there was enough employment protection around your job?
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What do you mean by "worth"? It is a job market, no one forced me to do the job, I took it because I felt it was an attractive deal for me at that point in my life. I knew that I would ultimately have to take a more conventional job that paid more to support the life I aspired to but at that time the package was fine. As indeed it must have been for lots of other people who chose to accept similar jobs.
You are only worth what the market is prepared to pay you.
That pay will be lower for jobs that offer very attractive non-financial features (like living in the Alps!).
A friend of mine worked in marketing for the Sony Playstation - did the UK launch of the PS2. It was a very cool job to have but the pay wasn't great. At one point he went to his boss saying he'd been offered twice his salary to move to a telecoms company. He was hoping he would get a counter bid but instead his bosses offered him his hand "thanks for everything -you've done a great job for us but the reality is I have people queing up to do your job on your current package so I can't pay more". Such is life.
Job security? You are only employed for upto 4.5 months. Who expects employment rights on a short term employment like that? Most places you can be sacked at short notice until you have worked a qualifying period.
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| dp wrote: |
Not to get too stuck on this point, but really:
So I think 'considerably more' might be a bit of a stretch. Just because it's in formal job speak in the JD, it doesn't make it stuff you wouldn't normally be doing. It's just chefing, plus basic management skills which all managers need to do. |
You've told us you've never done a ski season and from your answers above I'm pretty certain you've never been a head chef.
That was the polite way of saying you have no idea about what you're talking about.
| Quote: |
| Considering it pays about £9/hour MORE than the chalet chefs I was referring to, I think that's not bad for a bit of management. |
Once again you're comparing 'apples with oranges'.
Every seasonal chalet worker I've worked with / spoken with doesn't look at the issue from an 'am I being underpaid / exploited ' standpoint.
Rather they are looking at the package offered by the TO and determining when all the components are added up is this a fair package for the work expected.
In my case it was. In spades.
The other thing that's often overlooked too is the cost of a 1-2 week ski holiday if you're working in the 'real world'.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 12-06-18 19:18; edited 2 times in total
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| Quote: |
This is half the problem in my opinion. People seem to have this assumption that everyone working a chalet season has basically taken the choice between that or the dole. Time to start seeing your chalet hosts as skilled, dedicated professionals carrying out a challenging role in a demanding environment, not a bunch of minimum wage gap year students who'd rather go skiing than flip burgers.
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Not at all!
Nearly everyone I worked with would have been earning more money in the UK. They chose to earn less for a season in order to benefit from the opportunity to ski. There were a few more mature chalet hosts who were taking career breaks for that reason - it wasn't an alternative to the dole.
I actually had an offer of a blue chip graduate job which they agreed to defer for a year to allow me to travel and work a ski season. I was giving up that pay for a year to have a great life experience.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| jedster wrote: |
A friend of mine worked in marketing for the Sony Playstation - did the UK launch of the PS2. It was a very cool job to have but the pay wasn't great. At one point he went to his boss saying he'd been offered twice his salary to move to a telecoms company. He was hoping he would get a counter bid but instead his bosses offered him his hand "thanks for everything -you've done a great job for us but the reality is I have people queing up to do your job on your current package so I can't pay more". Such is life.
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It's a really dump attitude (which plenty of employers definitely have) and not really true anyway.
Yes there are people queueing up at the door to do the job... but none of them have proven themselves good at it, none of them have experience of doing it. Companies who cannot value the fact that their employees know how to do the job, how to be good at it, what does and doesn't work etc... and just value them at what they'll cost to replace; are the ones who never make progress. If you can't see that somebody who is experienced and good at the job is worth more money than somebody who's sent in a prospective CV hoping to do it; you're blind. But people do it anyway.
Although retention may not be an issue for ski chalets anyway. An owner of a several-chalet business once told me he never hires people who've done a season before. During the season they lose all the novelty and all the enthusiasm and learn how to get the jobs done quickly to maximise time off. He prefers people who're still full of energy and enthusiasm and so goes for seasonnaire virgins each time round.
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I think @sethpistol sums up the situation very well.
I'm not saying that it is wrong to change these regulations - it may be in the greater good - but it is not to the advantage of Brits who want to work ski seasons.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| flangesax wrote: |
| Do any of these chefs have to clean toilets? |
Most chalet hosts are not chefs in the same way that all ski hosts are not guides, regardless of how often and how loudly they tell you.
When you accept a chalet host position you accept the fact that you will have multiple roles & responsibilities, one of which may include cleaning toilets & bathrooms.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I just think what people are failing to see is, it's not that it's not a favourable option for young people who have no family commitments, no career yet, and not many money concerns if their expenses are all paid for - because I get it, it totally is attractive in that respect.
But this is precisely why it's exploitative. It takes people who will see these things and perks and pays them poor money because they think they're getting a good deal. They're not in a position to ask for better and they're not in a position to dispute it when they get there.
The world over you have people being exploited despite the fact that they think they're doing alright and the exploitation option is more attractive than the other options. I have at no point suggested that seasonnaires don't have fun. I'm just saying that having fun doesn't mean that you can't be exploited. Paying somebody £1.33/hr whilst convincing them that their lift pass and bunkbed make it a savvy deal is exploitation, and the fact that everyone's at it and the people partaking don't complain, doesn't make it right or ethical.
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Out of curiosity DP, what do you do in the 'real world' please?
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You know it makes sense.
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I did 3 seasons nearly 20 years ago now (was approaching 30 years of age at the time, so no naïve kid!!!), would go back in a heartbeat, but I have now got kids and financial commitments to contend with.
at no point did I ever feel exploited, even came back with spare cash each time.
As others have mentioned it could be the writing on the wall for independent/small to medium chalet operators, whereas the high end, money no object client base set up will probably not be affected. TBH, I think this has been the case over several years anyway, as it seems there has been a steady decline in the amount of chalet accommodation available. Though I think this is mainly down to more people choosing the DIY route in my opinion.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Right @dp quoted some figures, but no one has come back with build up (or rather down) to how you go from legal level wages to actually receiving £100, so I'll take a stab.
If you start with an assumption of UK contract with UK minimum wage for a 35hr week you get £280. At those levels tax is bobbins but maybe NI a bit more maybe, so I dunno £30 for both?
£250 left, lets say the operator charges £100 for accommodation and utilities (you pay iro that in most major UK cities for a student room bills in, resort accom is generally dearer in season but you won't get your own room most likely so hence still about £100).
Lift pass maybe £25pw, they're generally cheap for workers in France at least, or maybe the operator just does a deal with the lift company. Start of Dec to mid April that's only £400 total.
Then maybe £25pw for a weeks food, it's only £4 per day for at least two meals that's as cheap as any staff canteen.
So yep back to the £100 a week quoted above.
I'm working on the assumption tax & NI (including employers NI) is paid on the gross top line wage, it should be in my opinion.
So looking at that I don't see the net £100pw is in itself exploitation.
BUT
@dp talks about people working 70hrs per week (for more like £80), that's just plain wrong on at least two levels: The maths only works if you start with a weekly wage for 35 (maybe upto 40) hours; 70 hours per week is just too many to actually maintain over an extended period. So yes, anyone doing 70hrs per week for £80 or £100 after deductions is getting exploited. Anyone doing reasonable hours for £100 net, maybe isn't.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| dp wrote: |
The chalet hosts of a certain chalet company that we both know but I won't name in the interests of anonymity, in a nice French town where you may or may not spend some of the year residing, told me they get EUR400 a month and the chef gets EUR500. When I have been there they tend to come in around 0630 and leave around 1000, then return around 1600 and leave around 2200, so lets say 9 hours a day 6 days a week; plus changeover day is 0630 to 2200 straight through. Then there's days they need to do shopping and stuff, lets call it 5 hours a week. And there's a chef's night off so lets say minus 6 for that one. So weekly hours is probably around 70, monthly hours is roughly 300. So 400 euros is approx EUR1.33/hour, which is around £1.173. If we use UK minimum wage of £7.83/hour, monthly minimum wage for these guys would be EUR2663. The MBU season pass is EUR1250 which spread over the, let's say, 5 months of the season, represents approx EUR250 a month, so we need to assume that the chalet company is giving them 1950 euros worth of accommodation and food. And I'm unconvinced that one bed of a twin room in the seasonnaires accommodation and 2 hot meals a day can come to that much money. So I stand by my belief they are underpaid. |
QED
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 12-06-18 19:48; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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BTW my local restaurant owners (own several in Chx) are also property wheeler dealers. They buy up apartments and whilst renovating them they rent them to the cheap kitchen staff they import into resort.
Isn't that effectively the same thing the chalet operators do?
Not that it makes it right, or non exploitative. Just not exclusively a Brit thing.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@dp, @sequoiaborg, a couple of examples of bad employers doesn't mean the system is inherently wrong though, just some people take it way too far.
The crux seems to be the hours. Doing 70 hrs for 40 hours pay is exploitation. Same as paying a junior manager a salary that doesn't cover the hours they need to put in to get their duties done is exploitation (and don't get me started in internships).
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The Chalet Operators could employ locally but choose not to.
They would not need to provide ski passes or accommodation.
The digs that are offered to employees are not rentable commodities, so the companies are not loosing revenue by choosing to accommodate a worker, this makes the accommodation very cheap to provide if within the unit.
However, some companies do rent digs to squeeze in as many employees as possible.
A 35hr week is an impossibility.
The companies (for whatever reason) prefer to employ a UK based individual.
My question is, why? (ignoring 'native-speaker' related stuff)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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It seems like a very sensible law.
Either people were being underpaid or they were not. If they were, then I'm sure we're all pleased that's been sorted out at last. If they were not, then there's nothing for anyone to whine about. The fact that there's whining aplenty suggests which of those two alternatives is mostly likely true.
It's obviously not sufficient to suggest that exploited people are happy about being exploited. Even if it was, that ignores the local people who are being undercut by these migrant workers from the uk.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| jedster wrote: |
@dp,
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- Some season workers are too young or naive to realise they're being exploited
- Some season workers know they're being exploited but are OK with it because they enjoy the season
- Some season workers are misled to believe they won't be exploited and then are exploited using loopholes in the system
- Some season workers are told they'll be paid more and then on arrival are advised of 'unavoidable budget cuts' which affect their pay
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When I worked a season (paid 50 euros a week plus board and ski pass) I didn't see any of those things.
I knew what the package was and I was delighted to get the job.
The only time I felt exploited was when one set of guests stiffed us on the honesty bar (denied they had taken the drinks but we found the empties).
Hardly any of the people I worked with saw the job as a career but as an opportunity to do a lot of skiing without racking up debts.
The regulation changes will kill most of the gap year ski job for Brits. That might be a price worth paying but I'd be pretty sad about it if I was 20. |
So Stanton's "young people" have been shafted by the EU not Brexit, oh dear. You have to laugh don't you.
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Excellent news, happy to see the French will be applying the law immediately and ensuring all workers get the minimum wage as deserved.
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
| Out of curiosity DP, what do you do in the 'real world' please? |
I'm not sure what difference it makes but I am a company director in the field of concert and theatrical lighting and rigging. Why do you ask?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I can see the logic in this post but I don't agree with all of it.
| midgetbiker wrote: |
£250 left, lets say the operator charges £100 for accommodation and utilities (you pay iro that in most major UK cities for a student room bills in, resort accom is generally dearer in season but you won't get your own room most likely so hence still about £100).
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I don't really agree with this principle. I am largely against the notion that company-provided accommodation has the equivalent cash value to what you would rent, basically because if you were given the cash to choose your own place you could have whatever you wanted and spend as much as you like. When it's provided, it's done for the employer's convenience as much as yours, and you get less freedom on choosing where and with whom. So whilst your employer's provision might be saving you £100 in cash, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's a rightful and exact substitute to £100 in cash.
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@dp talks about people working 70hrs per week (for more like £80), that's just plain wrong on at least two levels: The maths only works if you start with a weekly wage for 35 (maybe upto 40) hours; 70 hours per week is just too many to actually maintain over an extended period. So yes, anyone doing 70hrs per week for £80 or £100 after deductions is getting exploited. Anyone doing reasonable hours for £100 net, maybe isn't. |
35 hour week as chalet staff is clearly impossible. It's a 7-day week unless you've got some drastic idea about chalets doing self catering weekends or something - so that permits 5 hours a day. The process of prepping, cooking and serving an evening meal - when it's a 3 course meal with wine - and cleaning after; plainly can't be done in much less than 5 hours in it's own right, unless you're going to do meals which are largely ready to cook - which chalets clearly don't. So by my estimation, you'd hit the 35 hour mark before any breakfast was served and before changeover day got the chalet ready for the next set of guests.
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| dp wrote: |
| Mike Pow wrote: |
| Out of curiosity DP, what do you do in the 'real world' please? |
I'm not sure what difference it makes but I am a company director in the field of concert and theatrical lighting and rigging. Why do you ask? |
I was curious to see if you were the Exploiter or the Exploited.
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