 Poster: A snowHead
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The treatment for hypothermia is not to remove wet clothes unless you're in a warm environment. Otherwise, dry clothes or layers on top of wet ones. So, the blizzard bags are just used in that context.
Obviously they won't dry out, no one would suggest that and it's not the point.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have a breathable bivi bag, lightweight and pretty good. But breathable materials rely on a good temp gradient to drive out the moisture, someone wrapped up with clothing sitting still and with a lowering body temp is not going to provide that much. I've bivi'd out for fun in plastic bags and you do get a bit of condensation in them.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@ise,
I wasn't suggesting stripping anyone of wet clothes in the cold. There are different scenarios where someone would need a bivy bag / emergency blankett / blizzard jacket (e.g. injured, stranded out in the cold but uninjured, planned overnight in the wilderness etc).
Just trying to work out what sort of emergency covering will work best in all scenarios and if the weight is feasible for something I am unlikely ever to use.
@Scarpa,
I've always camped overnight in tents, not tried a bivy bag yet. The tents were always fairly humid in the morning (although mainly in the summer) assumed a pastic bag would be a nightmare for condensation.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Scarpa wrote: |
| I have a breathable bivi bag, lightweight and pretty good. But breathable materials rely on a good temp gradient to drive out the moisture, someone wrapped up with clothing sitting still and with a lowering body temp is not going to provide that much. I've bivi'd out for fun in plastic bags and you do get a bit of condensation in them. |
Bivi bags and things like blizzard bags are different things though. Different use cases.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| DB wrote: |
Just trying to work out what sort of emergency covering will work best in all scenarios and if the weight is feasible for something I am unlikely eve. |
Blizzard bag and emergency shelter. No doubts. Hypothermia is the common complication of most common incidents even in summer.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| ise wrote: |
| Scarpa wrote: |
| I have a breathable bivi bag, lightweight and pretty good. But breathable materials rely on a good temp gradient to drive out the moisture, someone wrapped up with clothing sitting still and with a lowering body temp is not going to provide that much. I've bivi'd out for fun in plastic bags and you do get a bit of condensation in them. |
Bivi bags and things like blizzard bags are different things though. Different use cases. |
On a hut to hut I can't take everything but I could be injured or I could get stranded out for the night. Some of the emergency coverings are just a blanket, some are a bag, some are a jacket. Weights range from around 100g to just over 1 kg.
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@ise, I'm missing IKAR this year, far too expensive even by Cham standards, so opted to get my CPD at the ISSW in Innsbruck.
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Too much travel, I'm only just back from the UIAA GA in Mongolia  I'm not really at IKAR, just meetings at the start and end with a trip to Buxton I the middle.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@DB, At lower altitudes I used to cut a springy stick, tie it into a bow shape with a piece or cord and place it as a hoop in the entrance to the plastic bag, slightly angled forwards in case of rain. Would be a bit windy in the average mountain night though 
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 10-10-18 18:49; edited 1 time in total
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A belay jacket is also handy. Just pop it on over all the other clothing; windproof, water resistant, breathable and warm when damp. Combine that with a blizzard/shelter bag and you get pretty good insulation. I found over the years that any layer that firstly requires taking your shell off tends to get left in the rucksack until it is almost too late to get the benefit as most people will struggle on while feeling cold rather than risk taking a shell off in the storm (not just the cold to factor in but the chance of it blowing away).
I use this one although in black it does make me look a bit like an 80s football manager...
https://rab.equipment/uk/photon-x-jacket-26
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Wed 10-10-18 18:48; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| DB wrote: |
... Incidentally I searched for haute route ski touring equipment lists on the 'tinernet but didn't find one that recommended any sort of emergency covering, bag or jacket.  |
In the the Vgnettes hut incident, the referenced article said:
"One of the biggest traps that influences accidents in the Alps, he said, is that of complacency, because of the fast access and the amazing hut system.
....European clients and guides alike can think they don’t need as much information or equipment redundancy to be safe."
Are there any published stats of the fatalities each year in the Alps in winter analyzed by cause?
I'm just thinking that it's best to start with what the risks actually are and work from there...
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If you carry enough to comfortably survive anything then you will certainly get benighted due to all the weight slowing you down. Old mountaineering proverb.
I survived a big storm due to digging in, having a duvet jacket in my pack and using my rucksack as a waist high bivi bag. Minimal but I still could walk out the next day.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Scarpa wrote: |
| If you carry enough to comfortably survive anything then you will ….. |
need a rucksack like this
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Scarpa,
Fantastic.
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