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snowboarding 101!

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Mrs H and I have made our first tentative steps on the Darkside!

The venue: Castleford Xscape. Fantastically easy access from the M62, free parking and a wide range of shops and eateries.

The lessons: A three hour session on the nursery slope, described as covering levels 1 & 2. Taught in a group of 6. Teacher was a young man called Ian who I'd rate pretty highly on the scale of instructors. Enthusiastic, attentive and unflagging.

The gear: Saloman Shade boards, couldn't tell you what the bindings are but can describe them on request! Looking a bit worn but fully functional. The supplied helmet was the most repulsive piece of rental equipment I've ever interacted with; marinaded in the sweat of a thousand learners Shocked

What we thought: A pretty good introduction , I was making heel to toe turns in a rather panicked fashion by the end of the three hours. I found three hours quite long, particularly since learning to snowboard seems to involve a lot of rolling around and falling over! I wish I'd taken taken jonpims advice of supplying padding for my ar$e...it is worth it even for your first lesson. The idea of rental padding doesn't really bear thinking about Shocked

We are game for another go - probably at an artificial slope in the UK. We were stoked, man Toofy Grin
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
...and how did Sharon get on with it Ian?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Mrs H says:

"Well, I could get down the slope okay. It was gnarly! I can't wait to get me some big air"

but she won't type it herself...
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Ian (and Mrs H): welcome to our world!!

very glad you've finally taken the plunge and even more glad that you enjoyed it and are gagging for more

beware - there is a whole heap of pain to get through before it stops being painful. when you are ok with turning both ways and think that you can keep going without losing your balance, you move into that phase where you will occasionally catch an edge while going quite fast - and either land on your chest and bang your chin, or on your back and bang the back of your head!!

but fear not, because that phase also passes and then, there is a limitless joy to be had...
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Ian and Sharon, well done! Respect!
I hope to have another go with Tom in January
(Go and buy your bumpad now!)
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Ian - finally you have sampled the darkside!

If you keep at it and progress to riding powder one day after a fresh dump of snow, you will then understand fully the attraction of snowboarding. Nothing else like it.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Philip Prior wrote:
progress to riding powder one day after a fresh dump of snow, you will then understand fully the attraction of snowboarding.

And skiing in fresh powder isn't any fun ? Shocked
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
ise wrote:
And skiing in fresh powder isn't any fun ? Shocked


I don't doubt that it is, but i recall WTFH (or at least I think it was him) saying recently that the simple pleasure of a board and powder is more appealing than skis and powder (or, at least, that's what I took him to be saying). Not being a skier, I have no way of making my own comparison.

Maybe Ian can tell us in a year or two??
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Come on ise, there's no comparison, nothing can beat the sheer orgasmic pleasure of spending the best part of the day sitting down in all that soft powder... Wink Must be deeper and more comfortable just over the brow of a hill too...
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Here you see a group of youngsters in the middle of a lesson. The rudiments of actually turning on a board they picked up pretty quickly, but getting the hang of lying around all day isn't quite so simple for anyone already proficient at skiing.....Ian Hopkinson, sounds pretty wack, you can't have got your money's worth from your mofo if you didn't spend at least two of the three hours lying around learning the poetry... now that would have been sick dude, ya smell me?....
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Tony Lane wrote:
Maybe Ian can tell us in a year or two??


I can tell you now, there's really not a lot in it but skis remain the most versatile tool off-piste.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
What makes them more versatile off piste then?

Snowboards have a larger surface area which facilitates floating in deep powder much better than skis. Versatility or not. The effort required and enjoyment experienced from riding a board in these conditions from what I have been informed from people who have skied then boarded is much superior.

Take this year in Saalbach. It dumped all week fresh snow. 6 (boarders) went out with a ski guide and he took us through deep powder for 3 days. There was no questioning his technique and ability, but he had to jump and stomp around in the fresh to keep afloat whilst we just glided long and shallow turns or even just lifting the nose up to brake without turning at all.

I have never skiied, and have no desire to, but from talking to those that have they all say the same thing. Boarding in powder is much easier and more pleasurable than skiing it.
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Talk about trying to run before you can walk!

I seem to have developed a new set of aches and pains, and the realisation that most the muscles in the body are attached to the coccyx Shocked

I felt I made a lot more progress in my first 3 hours of boarding than in my first 3 hours of ski=ing. This is probably in part because I have from my ski-ing some feel for the use of edges to change direction and the idea that you are stable on a steep slope if you have your edges 'in'. I found the heel edge easier to get to grips with than the toe edge - perhaps because I could see where I was going!

I think at the moment snowboarding gives me something interesting to do at an indoor slope - maybe by next Easter we'll be renting a board for a day...
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Philip Prior wrote:

What makes them more versatile off piste then? Snowboards have a larger surface area which facilitates floating in deep powder much better than skis.
This is a mistake people often make. Skiing off piste is not necessarily skiing powder.

This season we were particularly fortunate, I think, in that most of the time, the two were vitually the same. But, normally, off-piste is not powder at all. This is why we have terms like "crud", "wind crust" and "rocks" in our vocabulary.

OK, some of these conditions are still technically easier to ride on a board - the extra surface area keeping you above the sticky, squidgy stuff for example. However once U get into narrower, steeper, rockier situations or when U consider just 'getting around' the mountain, I think a board does reach its limit before skis do.
True enough, when there's just been a fresh fall, the boarders are there, getting in the first tracks but a couple of days later they're mostly back on the piste or in the park and the off piste is once more the preserve of the skier.

Even so, I'm sure we could argue the finer points of this judgement for as long as u are still going downhill.
How many times last season did I zip past boarders trudging their way up fairly shallow inclines made arduous by a deep layer of soft snow? Even worse, seeing them on a steep incline - trying to climb through soft snow carrying a board.

This is where skis really come into their own.
The last thing U want when in a 'challenging' off-piste situation is to be relying on the 'floatation' and grip of just your feet. Simply, there are many situations on a mountain where U would need to remove a board where U wouldn't need to remove skis. Mostly these are occasions where, far from being an incumberance skis are a substantial aid to mobility.

I am not addressing here, the 'joy', 'ease to learn', 'simplicity', 'beauty' or 'cool' of a board when the situations suit it but purely upon the matter of versatility, I think the matter's self evident.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
u brain, That about covers it, another good demonstration would be take the various off-piste guidebooks and find one that's unsuitable for skis

Philip Prior wrote:
I have never skiied, and have no desire to, but from talking to those that have they all say the same thing. Boarding in powder is much easier and more pleasurable than skiing it.


That's the crux of the it of course, being easier doesn't make it more pleasurable unless it has to be easy to be able to actually do it. It's comparitvely easier to board in powder than ski, it taking more skill to ski makes it more pleasurable.

Like most things life taking more skill and practice is hardly a bad thing. Some boarders seem to think they have a monopoly on powder which is just plain stupid.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I think that what Philip was trying to say (as with my own earlier comment) was that for the average amount of skill of your average off-piste skier / boarder, there is more fun to be had in powder on a board than on skis - because for that same average level of skill, it is easier to board and you can therefore spend more time enjoying it rather than struggling with it.

Obviously, for those fortunate to have had the time to take their powder skiing skills a bit further, the fun factor will equate with the fun had by a less-skilled boarder (the difference that the extra skill would make on a board is negligible in my view).

Also, don't forget that the movements are different too. A board in powder is truly like a surf board - and I don't think you'd get that feeling with skis no matter how good you are. (correct me if I'm wrong!)

However, I do agree that skis are more versatile. Unlike Philip, I can see myself learning to ski over the next few years for that very reason - being able to side step, go up inclines, stand in balance on a steep slope etc must make those tricky off-piste runs (as opposed to heavenly powder fields) much more accessible.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I was doing it for fun and I thought it might look good on my CV!

I found the falling on my ar$e and rolling around in the snow bit a bit tiresome...but on the other it might give one the feeling of being more at one with the piste...

snowHead
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Ian Hopkinson, & Mrs H Well done! Glad you enjoyed it. I'm sure you'll stick with it and be able to ride both and get the best both sports have to offer. snowHead
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Philip Prior, amen! I hate skiing in powder- its over rated and not much fun, where as boarding in powder is great- its sooo easy. T

he first time I ever went boarding we had half a day learning to turn and stop and then went straight to the powder in the afternoon, whilst the skiers were still trying to stand up
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A friend of mine is a top level European surfer (in the top ten), he naturally took up boarding as opposed to skiing. He says surfing and boarding are very similar but you don't have a fin under the snowboard so it's not exactly the same.

I ski a few weekends with him and other boarders each year. They have been trying to pull me over to the darkside for the last few years but I've always resisted. It's Ironic but he's started going touring and realized the limitations of a board when touring and so now he's taken up skiing. Yes you can have more fun on a board in accessable powder (so I am told) but if you master skis you can ski more terrain (inc bumps, tight chutes, touring routes etc).
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[The first serious snowboard in the world - the Winterstick - had a fin. It was designed in Utah for powder or soft snow only.]
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David - what happened when the mountain was unhelpful in providing powder or soft snow?

DB - don't you fancy giving it a go just to see what it's like?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Ian. The Winterstick simply didn't operate on hardpack. It had no steel edges either, but neither does a surfboard. But if you look at film (late 70s) of its inventor, Dimitrije Milovich surfing powder, he wasn't concerned. He was trying to optimise a simulation of sea-surfing on snow.

All snowboards made until the mid-80s (most of which were then made in small French factories and workshops) had no steel edges. Then it was realised that the base, edges and sidecut of skis were an excellent basis for snowboard design.
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David Goldsmith wrote:
Then it was realised that the base, edges and sidecut of skis were an excellent basis for snowboard design.


And a bit later, it was realised that the snowboard was an excellent basis for redesigning the ski and coming up with fun fat things for people to play on...
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It looks like winterstick is experiencing a renaissance...no sign of the fin though...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
cue for "Jaws" theme music....
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Ian Hopkinson wrote:


DB - don't you fancy giving it a go just to see what it's like?


Not until I've mastered skiing (which may be never). Besides who's going to put the first traverse in for the snowboarders? Very Happy
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Philip Prior wrote:
I have never skiied, and have no desire to, but from talking to those that have they all say the same thing. Boarding in powder is much easier and more pleasurable than skiing it.

Thats because 99% of skiers (in Britain) can't ski powder properly. I board more than I ski these days but off piste and powder, skiing is better. Boarding is much easier in powder, but you float over it, you don't get the same thrill as skiing it. The only people who can argue this point are the people who can do both properly, not the people who think they can. (which is most people)
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
That about sums it up, skidonald! And welcome to snowHead snowHeads snowHead by the way....
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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skidonald, Welcome to snowHeads!

Actaully i guess your both wrong, it's personal opinions i don't believe all this clap trap one's better than the other Wink Little Angel

And (I guess) 99(.999)% of winter sports enthusiasts can't afford to learn to do both properly so they stick with the one they either experience first or enjoy the most and learn on their 1 or 2 weeks away to get their technique better..........?
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skidonald, welcome to snowHeads snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
OK its all down to opinions, that is true. But Nade is a good skier as I am sure she mentioned in another thread so her opinion I consider valid.

Snowboarding is more enjoyable as it is easier to ride in powder than skiis so the less proficient boarder can ride powder whereas maybe they could not on skis at the same "skill level".

You don't have to reach technical nirvana to make the experience more enjoyable. So only the highly proficient can make judgement on the enjoyment of riding powder?......don't think so.

Skidonald says you don't get the same thrill boarding as you do skiing. There are a few people I know who disagree. But then they are not instructors in both disciplines so that does not count.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

skidonald, Welcome to snowHeads!

Actaully i guess your both wrong, it's personal opinions i don't believe all this clap trap one's better than the other

And (I guess) 99(.999)% of winter sports enthusiasts can't afford to learn to do both properly so they stick with the one they either experience first or enjoy the most and learn on their 1 or 2 weeks away to get their technique better..........?


That's hit the nail on the head I think!
I always used to use the boards are better off piste arguement as well but I've since been told by a mate who ski's that now ski's are wider it's not such an issue.

Not sure I agree with what U Brain said about after a few days most boarders are back on the piste. Not where I've been anyhow. In proportion to the number of skiers and boarders in any given resort I've pretty much always seen more boarders off piste. Spot on with boards being a pain in the back bottom in some situations though, ski's are more versatile, if alone for the fact that you can go uphill with them.
Like most I'm stuck with the couple of weeks away a season though so I doubt I'll end up trying ski's anytiem soon. If I do it'll probably be when/if I get good enough for some serious of piste and want to use skins on approach ski's or something.

Any way at the end of the day it's the having fun that counts. This thread's been a pretty interesting read!

P.S Do skiers cause boarders darksiders then?! Puzzled That's what we call them!! Laughing Laughing Laughing
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I can't remember but that's we got called on the old Ski Club of Great Britain "discussion" forum..........well that was until we got booted off.
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as in "we" i mean us single implement sliders.
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I think we named ourselves that. Twisted Evil
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We did. Soon you will all know the power of the Darkside.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
1/Philip wrote "Skidonald says you don't get the same thrill boarding as you do skiing. There are a few people I know who disagree. But then they are not instructors in both disciplines so that does not count"
2/You don't have to reach technical nirvana to make the experience more enjoyable. So only the highly proficient can make judgement on the enjoyment of riding powder?......don't think so.

1st point: I said you don,t get the same thrill in POWDER.
2nd point: And to make it more enjoyable the better you are the better it is. If your not a skilled skier you struggle your way through powder, no matter how much you enjoy it. I.ve always loved powder, but the better I got the more I loved it. (enjoyed it)
I'm not slagging boarding down as I enjoy it more than skiing at the moment, just not off piste. And how do you know I coach both.
And thanks for all the welcomes
And Board4Llife, fancy meeting you on here. I'm wearing one of your tops as I type


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Fri 23-07-04 7:36; edited 1 time in total
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As stated previously.. It doesn't matter .. as long as you enjoy it... be it on ski's, snowboard or a giant plastic chicken...

Lets all breath and relax... breath and relax...
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Quote:

And Board4Llife, fancy meeting you on here. I'm wearing one of your tops as I type


Cool, hope you like it. I'm browsing into other forums at the moment, no mondoing here! Laughing
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