 Poster: A snowHead
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Every now and then - and it's quite rare in my experience - you read some really incisive thoughts about ski boots.
In this case they're from a contender for the overall World Cup crown this winter - US racer Bode Miller. He's applying maximum forward pressure to his skis by customising the flex and foot angle of his boots to gain the right knee position. It doesn't sound too comfortable.
All is explained in this article from today's Ski Racing.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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David - what time do you go to bed?
Or maybe you are in bed.
Anyway, an interesting article, but I think only for experts. And experts with a lot of guts. It sounds like he doesn't have much leeway: it either works and he flies, or the piste throws him a googly and he's a goner.
I'll stick to my ancient Nordicas.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Actually, I suspect that Bode is beginning to experientially discover some truths about physiology and balance that science has already found through research--even if it is research that is rarely applied to skiing. Boot ramp angle makes a very significant difference in balance, but our bodies adjust so well to poor balance environments that we don't notice it.
Don't believe me? Balance in your bare feet on a flat surface, then on one that is severely angled. Tell me that the latter isn't much more difficult. The differences with ramp angle are more subtle, but can make a significant difference in effective skiing--as Bode is discovering. I would argue that it's even more important with less talented skiers!
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Jonpim. I go to bed when my pooter tells me a bedtime story. 'Bode Miller's Ski Boots' doesn't quite fall into that category.
ssh. Interesting points. How come (some) women wear high heels?
I once skied (over 25 years ago) with a brilliant skier who owned a Geneva ski shop. He had a pair of Hanson ski boots (one of the most radical ski boots of the 1970s) with an incredibly high footbed angle. This was achieved with shells which were, in effect, high heels. All I can say is that this guy skied the Solaise bumps at Val d'Isere - which in those days were monstrous - like a master.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Looks like Bode is just starting to discover that you can have serious fun with your boots, I myself have had 4mm risers under the heels of my inner boots for the last 6 years, these force me to get a slightly better angle in my boots and actually are more comfortable than having the soles of my feet flat inside the boot, certainly they havn't caused me any problems with balance
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| BM wrote: |
| I dropped the heel way down in the boot, so that my shin is really far forward. |
I don't really get that. Is he tilting the whole boot shell forward and then pushing his heel back down?
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I think he means that if you push your heel down, your toes come up to mee you shin. However, if the toes stay where they are, then the shin has to come forward to meet the toes.
It's a bit like standing on a ramp, facing up the slope.
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Good question I guess we need a picture from the side to see what the heck he really means, dropping the heal to move the shin foward doesn't seem right, maybe pulling the heel to th eback of the poot might encourage theshin to press against the front but that's not what he said 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I too increased the height of my heel in an effort to create a better angle, that combined with a boot adjusted for that purpose made for a big change for the better for me. The new position took some getting used to but after a couple of hours it felt great. If you are guilty of having too much weight on the back of your skis give it a go.
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Bode emulating D G
| D G Orf wrote: |
| Looks like Bode is just starting to discover that you can have serious fun with your boots, I myself have had 4mm risers under the heels of my inner boots for the last 6 years |
Sorry D G, I know you haven't meant it, but this was just funny 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I was told by an instructor to tape one euro to the underneath of the heel of each footbed for similar reasons, but after a couple of hours skiing I hadn't noticed much difference and I needed half a lager. So I took them out again.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Surely, raising the inner boot heel only makes less space in your boot, it doesn't change the cuff angle.
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markP, presume you weren't skiing in France then, because two Euros wouldn't buy you jack! 
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You know it makes sense.
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Lol. Well it paid for some of the beer anyway.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Cedric yes I agree however this thing about heel raisers came up (pun intended) on the SCGB site back in early January or earlier, in my case I find that my feet seem to prefer a slightly raised heel when in ski boots, I ski better and my feet don't ache so much.
Martin I agree more or less, it does however make a slight amount of foward lean more comfortable, I guess Bode has taken this a stage further and had the cuff angle on hiss boots specially adjusted
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Poster: A snowHead
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Thinking about it, it should give you the ability to flex futher forward (relative to the ski) than you could before. It will probably make it more comfortable for most people too as the angle your foot makes to your leg would decrease.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Just re-read the article and realised that I'd mis-read the first sentence of his second paragraph which makes a nonsense of my attempted explanation. It also seems to contradict the above quote, as well.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
Jonpim. I go to bed when my pooter tells me a bedtime story. 'Bode Miller's Ski Boots' doesn't quite fall into that category.
ssh. Interesting points. How come (some) women wear high heels? |
To make their legs look shapely! It certainly has nothing to do with efficient walking. Ever seen a woman in high heels hiking in the mountains?
| Quote: |
| I once skied (over 25 years ago) with a brilliant skier who owned a Geneva ski shop. He had a pair of Hanson ski boots (one of the most radical ski boots of the 1970s) with an incredibly high footbed angle. This was achieved with shells which were, in effect, high heels. All I can say is that this guy skied the Solaise bumps at Val d'Isere - which in those days were monstrous - like a master. |
Counter examples aren't proof against my point. Who is to say that he wouldn't have skied even better and in better balance with a flatter boot board? Also, the Hansons were interesting in that the angle of boot board to cuff angle was 90 degrees (the boot board was tilted forward exactly as much as the cuff was angled). These two issues are some of the reasons that Hanson is no longer around.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| MartinH wrote: |
| BM wrote: |
| I dropped the heel way down in the boot, so that my shin is really far forward. |
I don't really get that. Is he tilting the whole boot shell forward and then pushing his heel back down? |
He's moving his heel down for speed events which forces him to increase his ankle angle to get the same angle in the boot. Interestingly, his comments about getting his knees over his toes cause me confusion. For proper balance, we want to make sure that the CoM doesn't move forward of a point sligntly behind the 1st MT. With knees that far forward, you'd need a lot of ankle flex to avoid getting into the back seat, so maybe this is his focus.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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But he also says,
"I’m a good four millimeters higher in the heel than in the toe"
So he must be close to sitting on the back of his boots 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| marc wrote: |
But he also says,
"I’m a good four millimeters higher in the heel than in the toe"
So he must be close to sitting on the back of his boots |
4mm is nothing! My stock bootboards are 1.7cm. If he means 4 cm, that's different.
Also, I read that he was there in the speed events, but now he's lowering that because of the unbalance it was causing.
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Maybe he does mean 4 cm that would explain a lot, if his heels were 4 cm higher than his toes it would put his knees over his toes and I would have thought completely screwed his balance point up, as I said earlier I use 4 mm lifts under the heels, but 4cm ....... I really want to see a shot of him in his boots 
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I think he's definetly refering to mm here. I've read articles like this before and ridiculously small amounts can have a huge impact on your skiing.
Some people talk about a couple of strips of duck tape on the binding having an effect.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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markP, certainly true. But, if that's the case, then it's relative to the mfr's built-in boot ramp angle plus the binding delta angle. Hence, that "4mm" is useless to anyone who doesn't measure these other values.
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