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Need ideas for 2005! Wanting to take our 5yr old too!

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
It will be his second yr on skis, and did make it onto the piste and out of the garden within 2 hrs.... even using drag lift. So, I need some ideas - ideally Europe. I dont fancy long haul with the boy. We have never skied in France, sticking mainly to Austria and Italy. I have the Crystal and Thompsons brochures but hotels seem fairly limited for families in France (Alp De huez and La Plagne seem nice....). Anyone got any sensible suggestions and also, what about the non existant 'free child' places? Neither brochure is very forthcoming and I dont want to end up in a rubbish hotel, just cos it hasnt cost us anything to take the nipper.

So we need
Realistically priced resort.... cannot afford the Royals prices...
Max transit time 2.5 hrs realistically.
A good mix of all slopes, gentle for the lad, reds for me, blacks for himindoors.
Hotel (again, due to nipper).

Any suggestions will be gratefully researched!

Oh, anyone know when the school holidays (Half term and Easter) are (so I can avoid them)?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Fruity. Years of practice at squeezing as much as we can out of the free Crystal child places. In my experience:
You need to book early;
Avoid the transfer if at all possible (drive or train) - Crystal will give you a reduction per person for not flying and throw the tunnel in too;
Crystal won't answer the phone but if you use a travel agent to deal with them it will probably work out 10 - 20% cheaper.
Nobody will tell you what the rooms are like (you have to share to get the free children) becuase they don't know - but with a bit of diligent directory enquiry work you can ring the hotel/chalet direct and talk to the staff there this season and get a view on which room is best. Insist that the room requirements you've selected are printed out on your invoice and take that piece of paper with you. Prepare to stand up for your rights!

the rules change every year so you have to wade throught the brochure to identify whcih places have free child places, then consider whether you want to fly or not, and then decide which one to go for. The first child is free and the second one is about £90 but as I said you do all ahve to share a room - hence the insider info on rooms - a duplex with 2 bathrooms (as we had this year and previously) sometimes counts as '1 room'!

Have never used the childcare so can't comment - we've preferred to rely on ad hoc arrangments once we get to the resort. If your boy is happy to ski a lot of the day then you might be better off doing that (collar the staff as soon as you arrive, put the work about that you might need some childcare in the afternoons and qualified nannies will appear as if by magic - a lot of second seasonaires who spent their first season nannying have realised that 'chalet host' = more time on the slopes).
Lots more info where that came from - send me a PM if it's too tedious for others to wade through ...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Fruity, school hols and easter are whatever weeks in Feb/march/april are most expensive. Good Friday 2005 is March 25th.

You ask for hotels, but may I suggest you consider Kid-friendly chalets. We went with ski-esprit for years. They were excellent. Rosie and Tom enjoyed the company. They had "ski-school" with classes exclusive to ski-esprit. Mum and Dad had great time knowing kids were happy destroying ski-esprit nannies.

Other friends have used Mark Warner and Club Med with good reports.

And where in France? For mixed family groups I recommend La Plagne. All three of the companies I have mentioned go here. I think the best value is Chalet Mont Blanc in Montchavin with Ski-esprit.
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Went to Les Deux Alpes last year with 4 & 5 year olds in tow. Can't say I'd recommend it....strike it off your list of possibles!

But....we went with First Choice and got four, count them, four free child places for our group! First Choice seemed to be pretty good for actually giving the child places away - Crystal, Thomson et al didn't seem too generous. That said FC were just as useless in the Rep/chalet staff line.....

I think Easter hols start on 18 March next year but haven't got a clue about half term.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Sorry. Didn't comment on school holidays next year - in our neck of the woods Christmas will be 21.12.03 - 5.1.03; half term 14 - 18.2.04; and easter 25.3.04 - 11.4.04. French half term will I imagine be the 3 weeks spanning our half term.
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Fruity consider Wengen in Switzerland, especially if you can get a flight in to bern airport as this is only about a 1 hour transfer, kids/beginners slopes in the middle of the village, lots of reds quite a number of blues but only a few blacks in the area
Also they like the Brits very few language problems as most locals speak at least some english, under 6's get a special ski pass 6 days would cost just over a tenner, it also is an easy blue run back to the village, my favorite hotel there is the Alpenrose, I think it's probably in both swiss travel and Inghams brochures, or you could book privately I know they are child friendly but they don't normally have lots of kids there.
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I would say Vallee blanche in ALpe D'huez with Crystal-great family hotel- better than Hermitage and Les Cimes- shouldnt have any problem getting a free place if you book soon!
PM if you want with your details and i'll search the systems at work for you ( I work for them)
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Fruity,

Hi! wow only just back and already on the case impressive Smile

I think you like Italy so perhaps Cervinia?? It is a short transfer 90 mins from Turin, fairly compact resort and is mostly great easy wide open skiing, but has good long reds too. It is very snow sure too and for hubby there are some blacks and he can very easily nip over the top into Zermatt for his fill!

The ski schools there are fantastic, we used them and were happy. We also spoke to people who had children in them and they were very happy indeed. Perhaps because the Italians love kids?

I think Crystal have a clubhotel Petit Palais which may be good with kids for free places etc. It avoids an uphill walk to the gondola too!

I have the mobile no. of the Inghams rep in resort who we had a decent relationship with, she was really excellent (been there for over 6 seasons), and she would certainly be well placed to advise you on their properties re. room sizes/facilities etc.

Alternatively France, like Jonpim says Ski Esprit are apparently amazing for kids. Friends of ours went to Les Arcs/Plan Peisey with them and had a fab time no problems at all.

We heard a bad report of Club Med this year.

Happy planning x
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If you want joined up childcare, the operator is as important as the resort.

We took our three nippers to Tignes with Esprit this year and it's hard to speak too highly of the company. Everyone else in the hotel seemed to share our enthusiasm, too - the childcare was first rate, the food was exceptional for a chalet hotel and, because they're a family-only operator, the kids found loads of friends and we weren't always worrying that they were disturbing some terribly respectable childless types.

Tignes might not be the best resort for a 5 year old, though, unless he's keen to tackle some challenging runs.
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Jonny Jones, (Cost-wise as well, Tignes isn't exactly the cheapest?).Fruity, If you're used to the bigger resorts then for France Alpe d'Huez and La Plagne are as good as any, going by what you've said about your needs. Or Les Arcs. The 3 Valleys might be too expensive.. If you're set on the package job, fair enough, but the good thing about a DIY holiday is that you can do your own thing while you're there, and pick and choose an apartment right on the slopes, if you book early enough. One of those elongated studios - main sitting room with convertible, bunks in entrance hall (door inbetween hall and main room vital), kitchenette - can be really cheap. From 'Surrey' it's pretty easy to get to Southampton (flights to Chambéry....) then it's not far to La Plagne (takes me 70 mins or so in car)...

Apartments can be booked on line as well. It's pretty easy to find out exactly where they are in the resorts. If you (or anyone else) ever decides to try a DIY break in France, but are worried about how to make the arrangements, language difficulties, etc, I'd be happy to help out. Smile
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Fruity, have a look on iglu. They are starting to take bookings for next year & have a whole section dedicated to free child places - definately worth a look

http://www.igluski.com/promotional_offers.cfm?pagenumber=1&page=1
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Fruity - have a look at the Crystal Club Hotel Turquoise in Belle Plagne. Very family oriented. Right on the piste. Friendly (Brit) staff including kiddy minder.
Not exactly gourmet food but kids don't want that anyway.
If you get lucky on the transfer from Chambery it can be reasonably short - just about on your limit.
Draw back - not many blacks in LP for the boss. Tons of everything else. And you can go over to Les Arcs easily from Belle Plagne.
1/2 term dates ? Just look at the brochure prices - when they zoom up that's them.
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kuwait_ian, Wow, 2.5 hours Chambéry - La Plagne? Where does it go first?

But as for blacks in La Plagne, well ok, but up around Bellecote there's plenty of 'advanced' skiing, especially if you go with one of the guided groups for a couple of days...

Problem with going to Les Arcs (for the day from Plagne) is that the father wouldn't be able to nip back to meet up with the family for lunch! You need a full day to make it worthwhile.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
PG - I speak from experience. I know it shouldn't take that anything like that long. But with a package operator you either hang around waiting for the next small plane to arrive to fill the bus or on the way back you tour around all the bits of LP doing pickups. Can take ages. Then on half term weekends, you frequently can't even get off the mountain road before you hit serious traffic jams caused by grid lock on the main drag in the valley. But as I said, you can get lucky ........ Chambery is certainly a better bet than Geneva. And Lyons - forget it.

Points about skiing - d'accord, mon ami.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
kuwait_ian, With you, have to say I've never been on a package tour anywhere (ski, Canaries etc...) but now you mention it I do remember seeing hordes of bored/frustrated/angry/tired/drunk people hanging around or being herded around airports for reasons I'd never tried to work out! And of course, Saturday arrivals during school hols? Can't think of much worse. 'Package' people must be real fanatics!


Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Thu 25-03-04 10:32; edited 1 time in total
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Fruity, nothing personal, but could I make a polite request that you don't let your kids anywhere near me on flights. If they annoy me, I may make them go and play outside. snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
WTFH - I love kids but I don't think I could eat a whole one. Wink
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Very Happy If you sat near my kids, you'd be last off the flight as you'd be looking for missing personal items. Like ears. Very Happy
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I'd be more likely to have lost my mind, nevermind my ears!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
My lad is a good one actually. I too hate children. Always have, until I had my own. He is a real grown up on little legs. Thank god, had he been a nightmare from hell, I would have throttled him long ago..........
I need to sit, brochure on knee and read through this thread.... loads of suggestions (THANK YOU ALL) and hopefully, more brochures will arrive shortly. We always used to do last minute bookings pre Ben, but its harder with a child. I did (nervously I admit) book Tonale through the internet via the Inghams website..... but that was pre snowheads and SCGB days....

WTFH I have to say, I have only let my son launch projectile vomit on one person in the past...and I aimed his head..... Cool
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Don't discount N.America just because of the long haul. We took our (then) just 4 year old twins to Mammoth via LA, no problems, and have skied in N.America each year since. It has some advantages with user friendliness over Europe; we've found it a great place for our kids to learn to ski.


Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Tue 30-03-04 12:33; edited 1 time in total
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
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Vaujany for Alpes D'Huez - we have friends that go every year and rave about it .
Belle Plagne - our first trip with a then five year old
Morrillon - for the Grand Massif.

Can't speak for your husband as the nearest I get to anything black on a piste map is the straight line going up! but you and your son would probably enjoy any of these. Can't help with the hotels/tour operators as we choose to self cater and arrange it independently because it's so much easier and cheaper with kids. But would agree with poma, if you live anywhere southish think about driving and avoid the package crush and transfers all together.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I took our eldest to sause at five. She loved it, the locals were very kind and she liked the outdoor pizza kiosks.

Off to Tremeblant next year, will be eight kids in the party from our youngest (aged four) to a ten year old. Flight is 7 hours (bit a a nightmare) and it could be cold, but it's rated for children and we get flight & 5* Hotel for £500-a-head at halfterm.

Just hoping that The Fox is on the flight Twisted Evil
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We took our two kids to Tremblant 2 years ago and they still talk about it. They really enjoyed the skiing (easy run down from the top of all lifts) and loved their instructors. True the flights seemed a bit long, but it passed quite quickly (they read books and watched the films). It's our only experiance of North American skiing, but it seemed to be really geared towards kids and families, would happily go back again.
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DAVID F, thank goodness for that. I got pressganged into going. I fancied Vaujany or Courcheval 1650. Sad
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Swiss owned operators (Kuoni and Inghams particularly) have some very good child offers. We paid £99 each for our kids at half term for a good hotel in Switzerland with Kuoni, I think Inghams are £139. This covers the travel, hotel, breakfast (and dinner in some hotels). Generally from age 7-11 you have to pay a half board supplement.

Our half term is about 12th February next year, the southern schools often have the following week, but with an early Easter next year maybe not.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
We've just come back from Ischgl. It was wonderful. Our kids don't do lessons but we did watch the kids who were in lessons, the groups were generally about 6, the biggest we saw was 8. The lessons are 10:30 to 12:30 and 1:30 to 3:30, starting up the mountain, and the ski instructor supervises lunch for an extra 7E (includes lunch and one drink). Lessons include supervised stops for the loo as required. The skiing is excellent with an large range of easy to get to blues and reds for the tinies, and a few kids fun areas that the ski school use. The village is fairly typical Austrian agricultural, although most of it is fairly new (the cowsheds have double glazing even). The pool is fun for the evening.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Hi Jane

Have you ever thought about Bulgaria. Bulgaria, i know doesnt usually immediately jump to mind, but believe me a high percentage of the people we have had stay with us over the last 12 months have been pleasantly surprised and have already booked to return. We have a small hotel in Bansko, it is English owned and run, and with the property being totally enclosed within its own walled garden your 5 year could safely play without having to have constant supervision. check out the following website www.devonshirelodge.com
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Glynis, welocme to showHeads. I think you might be our only Bulgarian so far. I have recently met a couple of gorgeous Bulgarian ladies, and have had to radically alter my opinion of Bulgaria and Bulgarians. Please tell us more about skiing in Bulgaria and your hotel. Are you on the picture of Devonshire Lodge at night with the dog?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Glynis, I'll welcome you to snowHeads.....I think Jonpim must have been drinking Wink
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Glynis, I think Bulgaria is definitely an area with potential. My first ski holiday was Pamporovo Feb 97 during the final overthrow of the Communists. Went back in ths summer to see how it was going!

Always found Bulgarians to be infomed and interesting (just wish they didn't smoke so much) and very well educated.

Borovets would be a great beginners' resort with a decent lift. I guess Bansko is the same. Remind me, is it that place near Sofia?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Ezirabeth B, wosha mean drinkin'! Nev' tusha stuff. Juss occayse-zonal medisnul redwine.
snoHeads, shoHeads, schmoheads - wozza diffrenze?
Warezat gorjus Glynis gone......?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Jonpim, Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Welcome to snowHeads, Glynis snowHead and thanks for the link on your webpage!

Jonpim, I fear you must wake from your night on the tiles to discover that Glynis is English and not Bulgarian...
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Ian, you mix with Mr Pedant at your peril.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition wrote:
Bul·gar·i·an. adj. Of or relating to Bulgaria or its people, language, or culture.
n. 1. A native or inhabitant of Bulgaria. Also called Bulgar. 2. The Slavic language of the Bulgarians.
WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University wrote:
Bulgarian. adj : of or relating to or characteristic of Bulgaria or its people; "the Bulgarian capital is Sofia". n 1: a native or inhabitant of Bulgaria 2: a Slavic language spoken in Bulgaria.

(Amazing what a dose of Resolve can do.....)
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Does anyone remember that guy who was constantly on about Bansko, (and what a brilliant place it was), on the old SCGB site? Can't remember his name but he was definitely Bulgarian. Can a member look it up, so we can ask Glynis is she knows him?
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maggi, his name was vlado handzhiev and he ran a tourist outfit at www.banskotravel.com. Some reckoned he might be mayor, but according to the Bansko site he is not (yet).
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Hi all
I'll try answering the main questions first!
sorry to burst your bubble Jonpim, but yes I am English. My husband & I have been in Bansko now for 14 months and loving every minute of it. I'm sorry but we dont know vlado handzhiev, Bansko isnt a purpose built ski resort but is actually a traditional working town (a very pretty one at that) with a population of about 10,000 people, so knowing everyone is gonna take a little more time! Bansko is a 2 hour scenic drive from Sofia, the resort you are thinking of Chris is Vitosha.
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No Glynis, after 14 months you are definitely Bulgarian and, as I said earlier, all Bulgarian ladies are gorgeous. Here is Mariana and Maria, both from Sofia.
In 2003 Miss Bulgaria (second from left) was in the Miss Universe final.
I note Miss Brazil was a Vulcan! Madeye-Smiley
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Vlado's enthusiasm for Bansko was something to behold Wink
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