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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Having now developed a bit of an obsession with statistics (to try and ease the boredom in the summer!), as well as trying to work out where to ski next winter...is there a website that offers realistic comparisons in terms of size, number of runs, etc etc.

Many resort sites use various statistics that mean little in terms of comparing resorts.

e.g. Vail claim to have the same area of skiing in terms of acreage as the 3 valleys, but Vail doesnt state how many miles of piste there is, and with only 34 lifts assumably doesnt have the same amount of pistes.

Maybe im just sad, anyone know where i can satisfy my mathematical ski needs?!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
tom, in the States the ration of pistes to lifts is a lot higher than in Europe, e.g. in Alta, the Supreme lift serves 8 offiicial pistes, and a large offpiste area, while in places like Val d'Isere you,ll frequently get 1 lift serving 2 or 3 runs.
If you're wanting to ski by stats, I think % on/off piste, or % black/red/blue might be more useful if you're going to a relatively big resort
I'm not sure of any site which does the comparison, although you may get some good info at http://www.skimaps.com/
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Tom, stats will only tell part of the story Argentiere fo example only has 9 lifts but it has a huge ski area and some of the longest runs anywhere, it also has a 2km vertical descent . How can you factor in these points.
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I agree with David@traxvax (strange name, nice guy). La Grave is an even better example. 2 lifts (a 2-stage gondola, plus a long T-bar over the glacier) service some of the most exciting ski terrain in the world.

Many ski areas have scores of lifts, serving bland uninteresting terrain. It's a case of quality, not quantity.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Number of runs, % on/off piste works for europe but not for N America/Canada. Don't forget over there the whole of the ski area is avalanche controlled (whereas in france its just the actual "runs"). There isn't a clear division between on/off piste in quite the same way as in Europe.

Why the obsession with meaningless stats? The only way to compare resorts is to go there & see which ones you like!
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
I once saw a scale OS/topographic map in a ski mag which overlaid the Trois Vallees with the 6 largest US ski areas (including Vail) all fitting inside!!. So I would assume that Vail's "data" is actually a comparison of Vail's total inbound acreage (everything within the resort boundary) with the 3V's PISTE ONLY acreage. Obviously a meaningless comparison. I agree with Tree Hugger - a lot of these stats are meaningless, and quality is more important than quantity anyway.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Hey tree_hugger, go easy on poor tomski01: he admits he's got a problem. Obviously Mathematics Anonymous has not been able to help and he's back on the Statistics. But give him some credit. He has got himself off Equations.
And there are hundreds of ski resorts out there. Most of us only try the BiG Few.
How do we choose our resorts? We ask on Snowheads, or friends, or read the magazines, and the same resorts come up every time. His method of sifting out the good from the bad may not appeal to all of us, but can't be any worse than how the rest of us decide.
"Go there and see which ones you like" would be fine if there were only 10 or 20 places to go, but how do you choose from hundreds?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
tomski01, is a man after my own heart! Very Happy
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I find the post saying 6 largest America resorts can be fitted inside the 3 Valless domain interesting and fits into my estimate. Whistler/Blackcomb claimed to be the largest in North America and I estimate this twin mountain resort no bigger than Val D'lsere/Tignes (300km) or Les ARc/La Plagne (420km).

3-Vallee has 600km piste is ranked 3rd lagest in Europe. American skiers prefer one chairlift serving many runs because that is what North American resorts offer.

Going one side of a valley and coming back on the other side in Saalbach Hiterglemm (Austria) in 30km loop, going one complete 40km circle in Italian Dolomites with Selva Ronda circuit, doing 22km in a single run with Valle Blanche or experiening 2km biggest dropp in one groomed run in Les Arc (France) are European only. If the European like to use the same chairlift repeatedly to explore the area adjacent to it they should head for USA.

Any resort with 200km piste should keep an average skier busy for a week. There are hundreds of them in Europe.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Les Arcs/La Plagne (Paradiski) claims to be no 1 in the world in terms of ski acreage, no 2 in terms of no. of lifts, no 3 in terms of miles of piste. It's all hype! A direct line is needed to the supernatural web to consult the only stats that really matter.... where will the snow be for the next trip you want to make to the slopes? (If anyone knows of a cheap dialup connection.....) (perhaps uk.rec.psychic can assist)

Seriously though, although the 'goski' site hasn't been updated since the Paradiski area was officially opened this season, it provides a few stats... as well as some articles on ski area measurement, does size matter, etc...

http://www.goski.com/experts/biggest/linked.htm
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Quote:

does size matter, etc...

To paraphrase a well known saying

Never mind the length .......... ski the quality.

I agree that the blurb about Paradiski is largely hype. Les Arcs and La Plagne both have much to offer but are 'connected' - technically true. In practice I'd love to know how many have actually used the 'link' ??? I bet it's well below capacity.

BTW I've discovered both resorts have lifts called 'Arpette' - that'll confuse the geographically challenged.


Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Sun 28-03-04 14:56; edited 2 times in total
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
PG, my dad ex-vicar, but really: once a vicar, always a vicar. Ex-vicars usually retain the hot-line to PearlyGates.com (not to be confused with BillGates.com). He is always ready to use his connections: a box of milk chocolate brazil nuts and a bottle of rum usually does the trick.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Acreage of slopes isn't a particulary useful measurement though is it, nor is drop sometimes. Consider 2 slopes, A is 1km wide but 5km long and B is 5km wide but only 1km long, both have the same drop and acreage, is the wide steep one better or worse than the long shallow one?
I think you have to look at all the info for the slopes, whether there is a mix of slopes (reds, blacks etc), if you are skiing with a mix of friends etc.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
On the subject of hype, ref the argument over who's got the biggest one from the Portes du Soleil, proponents forget the need to catch a bus or take an occasional long hike.... So on that basis, the Paradiski claims are a little more genuine.

Still I've yet to take the Vanoise Express link a single time over the whole season (I got as far as skiing down to take a look at it once - there were no queues...)
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Oooh, well ive certianly stirred some debate.

I totally agree its quality not quantity, but its all the 'hype' that is confusing, depending upon who you ask or where you look, all resorts claim to be the biggest/longest/tallest/best etc etc, but i want to know where you can see the raw data and decide for yourself!

Maybe in confused, i mean what is the real largest ski area in the world, what is best ski area to go depending upon your ability, how does america and europe compare, where does get the best snowfall and have guarunteed perfect conditions...no one can say for sure, and there lies the problem....Mathematics is useless in this matter!

argh! rolling eyes
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:

Mathematics is useless in this matter!

Fiat lux - et lux erat. Viduit lucere sanguine millia passuum

Let there be light and there was light. And you could see for bloody miles !!!!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
PG, Vanois Express certainly worth taking. Very impressive machinery, fast and very smooth. Fascinating how the railings of the waiting platform swing down to be become gangplank for entry into cablecar when it arrives.
But tomski01, the problem of size is one to keep the "lawyers" happy for years: just what is a linked resort? Linked by piste only (do off-piste links count?), or can you include lifts and buses? Do the buses have to be included on the lift pass?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
A linked resort is one that visitors can go to without taking their skis off, except in boarding cable cars.

Les Arc/La Plagne has been linked this season by one cable car Vanoise Express. I haven't managed to try it yet but I would guess strategically it isn't located at the best location. Also in 2004 a daypass for each is about 38 Euro but 45 Euro is demanded to ski both. To day trippers each side of the resort takes more than a day to explore. Even if one try to speed up the long queues on La Plagne will limit your ambition.

3-Vallees is truly linked because each valley can be access by more than one link. The other extreme is the Chamonix valley where none of the resort is linked except La Flegere & Brevent.

Good linked resort are La Rosiere/La Thulie, Cervinia/Zermat and Avoriaz/LesCrosets where you can ski two countries in one visit.
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
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saikee, I think by your criteria Zermat is not linked with itself. Shocked You can't get from the Kl Matterhorn section to the Gornergrat/Stockhorn section without taking off your skis and walking or getting on a bus. Chamonix has similar problems.

Les Arcs and La Plagne on the other hand have actually been linked for years by ski. If you take the long (boring) run from Les Bauches to Montchavin, but cross to the right of the valley at the bridge soon after Les Bauches, you can ski on down to Peisey and then to Les Arcs.
(Admittedly this is rather a one way route, as only a cross-country skier would consider this route for the return journey)
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Jonpim,

Do you know if there is a plan to link the 3-Vallee with Paradiski (Les Arc + La Plagne)?

Got the feeling this is could be the next logical step. From the OS map collection they are 95% there. Such link could put France on the No. 1 spot beyond any dispute, regardless linked or unlinked and km or acre.
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