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Burton decloaks step ons for '18

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Richard_Sideways wrote:
@Tirol 164, Nah, it'll hang around for years, like some niche nonsense with about half a dozen people who swear by it as it's what the Burton team riders use. A bit like Flow bindings.


Nailed it with that!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Well after a week scoping out any bindings neuveau in VdI I can report precisely zero found either in shops or in use
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Hence the madness on ebay
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hang11 wrote:
would be interesting to know how well it works getting into them in deep snow, where you canít really push down hard to get them to engage.

To judge from their use at my cat-boarding mates' company that's not a problem at all. They tell me that the ride is more responsive than with traditional stuff and an improvement all round. I didn't see anyone having any problems, or switching back.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Thatís interesting. I had a look at a set in a shop here yesterday. They have just come in and almost sold out of stock - not bad considering itís summer here.

Think Iíll leave it a couple of years before seriously considering as an option but have to say they look simple and well made and solid.
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Waiting a couple of seasons for burton to iron out the bugs and get long term reports from users in main resorts is the way to go .
(by main resorts I mean like St Anton or other places that sell alot of gear that is used off piste where it gets a track record )


Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Tue 26-12-17 20:55; edited 1 time in total
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Only having boa boots is a turn off for me - all the ones Iíve tried on are not that comfortable - much prefer regular laces or speed laces
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I can't wait to teach people using these - it's going to be so much quicker and easier, especially with young kids.
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Quote:

only difficult if you've got a beer gut

Which is why I got me a pair!
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
to bump an old thread.
They really are great. Done wonders for me.
My knee issue means I cant always get my heel down with traditional bindings before strapping.
The stepons - once engaged I can pull the board to meet my heel. Again same for toe. Quite easy to bind in powder.
Also nice to just jump of the lift, skate & go.
Only issue for me is they dont work well with my board (Gnu Carbon Credit), the response of the boots & the rocker camber was a real fight sometimes to get the board to go where you wanted it to go!
so I treated myself to a new board in the end of season sales. Rossignol XV.

I did have an initial issue with the original cleets (I had the replacement with me)
bit hairy going down a slope & your boot comes out the binding!
Laughing

I remember when buying my set, by the time I completed checkout anything between 8 & 10 was sold out & I completed my purchase within 5mins of them being listed for sale (This was pre-advertised the date & time they would be available).
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Ok. hard hat on here as someone who's never once snowboarded - why can't boards use a smaller version of a ski binding ? There is no need to release at the front so it should be possible to make that point much smaller than the current ski version, and the rear part can be a more vertical style , more like a look or geze binding so shouldn't overhang the heel edge . The stiffness obviously needs to be built into the boot, but surely a cage structure would do this ?
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
the boot comfort factor is part of the attraction to snowboarders. Dont want that ruined.
Racing snowboards already use samething akin to a ski binding and boot combo (not exactly the same).
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Mmm, I think it's more flex than comfort.

If you try to use soft bindings with minimal flex then they can be quite uncomfortable. Hence racers tend to use hard boots & bindings, which are probably close to what you're thinking. It's a trade between flex and responsiveness.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
my daughter works in a snowboard shop - sold out of the step ins on pre season orders, and haven't had any back or any complaints. Sounds like a pretty good system on that basis.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Are there any issues on their performance with the inevitable accumulation of compacted snow between the base of the boot and the binding plate ?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
snow_badger wrote:
Are there any issues on their performance with the inevitable accumulation of compacted snow between the base of the boot and the binding plate ?


Nope, dont really get compacted snow there - at least no difference to regular bindings. You can get snow/ice build up in the heel area that secures the rear of the boot, but its just a case of swishing it with your finger & pulling the release mechanism to clear it out. That is no worse to crank bindings Or Flow Bindings when they freeze up though!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I love my current boots too much to change. I also love my faithful CO2s. I hate the toe caps on my Genesis X but have seen these have been revised for 2019 so am trying to source a pair. Stiff boots and stiff bindings, on EST boards... what would Step In add? Nothing for me.

If I was just coming into the sport, maybe I would look at Step Ins, but seriously, strapping in takes seconds once you are familiar with it and have your strap lengths cut right (and have ditched your old Genesis tow caps).
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
bar shaker wrote:
I love my current boots too much to change. I also love my faithful CO2s. I hate the toe caps on my Genesis X but have seen these have been revised for 2019 so am trying to source a pair. Stiff boots and stiff bindings, on EST boards... what would Step In add? Nothing for me.

If I was just coming into the sport, maybe I would look at Step Ins, but seriously, strapping in takes seconds once you are familiar with it and have your strap lengths cut right (and have ditched your old Genesis tow caps).


Im not a fan of burton boots, however i have a knee disability & struggle get pressure onto my heel (my bindings are stagger mounted so I get more weight over the heal area!). Binding up for me does not take seconds, its can take a few attempts to make sure the heel area is flat enough before ratcheting. I tried a variety of bindings including flows. Everything was an effort!
Difficult to explain my knee issue in what it stops me doing. I cant use a clutch in a car for example, as I dont have the range of controlled movement. I have maybe 15-20% control but after that weight & gravity takes over.

Would be nice if Burton opened up the tech to other boot manufacturers under licence.
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Mr.Egg wrote:
bar shaker wrote:
I love my current boots too much to change. I also love my faithful CO2s. I hate the toe caps on my Genesis X but have seen these have been revised for 2019 so am trying to source a pair. Stiff boots and stiff bindings, on EST boards... what would Step In add? Nothing for me.

If I was just coming into the sport, maybe I would look at Step Ins, but seriously, strapping in takes seconds once you are familiar with it and have your strap lengths cut right (and have ditched your old Genesis tow caps).


Im not a fan of burton boots, however i have a knee disability & struggle get pressure onto my heel (my bindings are stagger mounted so I get more weight over the heal area!). Binding up for me does not take seconds, its can take a few attempts to make sure the heel area is flat enough before ratcheting. I tried a variety of bindings including flows. Everything was an effort!
Difficult to explain my knee issue in what it stops me doing. I cant use a clutch in a car for example, as I dont have the range of controlled movement. I have maybe 15-20% control but after that weight & gravity takes over.

Would be nice if Burton opened up the tech to other boot manufacturers under licence.


I wasn't a fan of their boots, until I tried on and bought a pair of leather Ions. They are made with Redwing leather and are a thing of beauty, as well as being super comfy yet stiff. I live in fear of the day that they eventually wear out, but I regularly feed the leather with a Redwing leather conditioner/waterproofer (works really well on Hestra mits too) and they are still like brand new after approx 100 days of use.

Burton normally do open up to licences, Jake Burton owned the patent on the snowboard and realised the only way the sport would grow is if he let other companies make snowboards. The same with Mistral and windsurfing.

I personally think the market is too mature in the current format for this to really take off. I would be looking at £800+ to kit out my boards with new bindings and get new boots. I would rather spend that money on a decent split board.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Agreed that the price is currently far too high for me to consider purchasing at the moment. My burton emerald boots are still going strong after 100 ish days of riding in them and are so comfortable
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For anyone looking to try the new Burton setups and winter18/19 range, there's a demo session at Hemel Snowcentre this Friday (28th Sept) if you can get there.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
bar shaker wrote:
....Burton normally do open up to licences, Jake Burton owned the patent on the snowboard and realised the only way the sport would grow is if he let other companies make snowboards. The same with Mistral and windsurfing.
...


Actually I think that that's not quite right. Working back to front:
  • the "Windsurfer patent" was held by Schweitzer, not Mistral, and it was only overturned by legal force (there was prior art, in the UK) not voluntarily. The patent held back the sport (by increasing costs) for some years.
  • Burton didn't "patent the snowboard". Winterstick and others had boards out there before he started making them.
  • Burton's history with other binding technology has demonstrated little in the way of openness.

Don't get me wrong, I like Jake, but he's commercially savvy.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

Burton didn't "patent the snowboard". Winterstick and others had boards out there before he started making them.


I think Jake / Burton bought the patent from someone else (Winterstick? Sims?) maybe when one of the early companies went bust.

The popular line is that the ever-nefarious Burton then tried to charge everyone else a license fee. The Burton version is that the patent was up for auction and they bought it rather than let it fall into the hands of someone outside the snowboard world and that the license fee was very small and simply an attempt to recover their costs, but they met with too much resistance and dropped it.
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Philw,s point about commercially savy is where entry riders will get railroaded after the shopping experience .
If cost doesnt matter then great progress at will changing up annually .

Bootfit under load of speed and force is what counts first not a quick binding in and out shopping experience.
Getting in and out of bindings is secondary and is the burton sales carrot here .
This isnt to say the new burton stepin boots will not progress.... and a premium stepin boot model range will increase annually.

You have to walk before you can run .
I just ....wouldnt buy a highly expensive alpha or beta Nike system to learn to walk .

You only need bootfit and fitness flexibility to ride the rest follows with ride time training
This ride time frame ie training, wont have shortcuts same as any athletic/ equipment sports training .

Burton motos are the worlds most popular boot
Except I doubt anyone who puts time in on a board will ever think about burton motos mainly because they fit everyone on the planet .
With burton it sometimes pays to pick out the best items after all the noise has died down .
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@Tirol 164,
Nobody really buys a setup new when learning to board. Bit unfair comparing them to Nike & learning to walk.
may progressing to running would be a better analogy?
The StepOn boot & binding is comparable in price to a normal boot & binding
Breakdown what I paid last year for my stepons :-

0101 17285101416-10 PHOTON STEP ON BLUE PRINT-10 1.0 PAR 291.67
0201 17283101073-M STEP ON - MENS SILVER-M 1.0 PAR 183.33
Subtotal per delivery 304258271 30.10.2017 475.00
TOTAL 475.00
EXTENDED PRICE NET 475.00
SUBTOTAL 475.00
VAT 20,00 % 95.00
NET DUE GBP 570.00

Photon Boot non Stepon are £320
& burton caretel bindings are £245 (which are very similar in looks to the stepon)
Total £565
2019 photon stepon package is now £600
So its only a £35 premium
TBH I think the £35 is worth the extra if your in the market for new boots & bindings.
Especially if your in a group dominated by skiers.
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stevomcd wrote:
... I think Jake / Burton bought the patent from someone else (Winterstick? Sims?) maybe when one of the early companies went bust. ... .
I had, of course, googled to check before posting wink

There are many Burton patents (and related organisations), but nothing which looks likely. There's no evidence I can find to support the idea that Burton owned anything particularly important or that he tried to use it. Happy to be pointed to some though!

Here's a reasonable summary of the early history from what I remember.
Unlike Windsurfer patent this wasn't a single innovation, snowboards evolved as described.

I think Jake did well because he was smart, well educated, and focused on winning rather than partying.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Looking at new costs your right £35 is not a issue .

At first the boots just may be moto bucket fit then they will have better models this is already happening and that brings better fit choices thats really my point they do lock you into burton .
Burton caters to the average 10 day per season rider world wide , beginner or not 10 days training in any sport per season is kinder level and they say that is the average so jake works around either side of that market .

The whole uk outlook is 7-14 day trips alot of people cant see outside of that and the market focuses on it this is also what Jake knows its his bread and butter .
I think people mess about for a week or two then buy new sometimes used but fitting is tricky for them .

If these 10 day per season ride time frames were a surfing training time frame its like wow its fun but your going no where fast as in 1-2-3 decades you might progress to a degree .
Which is the plateau stage .
Even a noted british rider out of cham commented on brit confidence and aspirations not matching years of hard training times frames and life commitments

I stick with equipment which works and has the test of time behind it but I see how the quick in and out thing is the real carrot here nothing else .
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Version of events above was how I remembered it either from an old book or from that "History of Snowboarding" film a few years back.

There's some pretty candid details on it in an interview with Jake here: https://www.snowboarder.com/a-paper-trail-the-jake-burton-carpenter-interview-september-2016/

I should, I'm a big Burton (and Jake) fan as well. Have ridden loads and loads of their kit over the years. I still think they make the best bindings.
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