 Poster: A snowHead
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I cant believe this is such an issue. Ive been skiing 28 years and have never hit someone. Ive been hit twice once by my mum when i was young and one french woman hit me from behind and fell over. I managed not to. What is hard about not hitting people. If its narrow and someone is going slowly then watch which way they will turn and go the other way. Dont ski too close behind someone as they could break at any point. Actually be observant when coming to a piste crossing. Dont ski at a speed or on a piste where you arent fully in control. Its pretty simple really.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Seems a draconian measure for something which may have relatively little impact on the problem, penalising the large proportion of people for whom having a beer or a glass of wine at lunch is one of the pleasures of a skiing holiday.
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It may be a pleasure, but it will certainly reduce their ability to ski/ride in the afternoon.
The same argument was trotted out in the 70's when the breathalyser was introduced: "I can drive just as well after a beer or a glass of wine". This has been comprehensively disproved, so why is the same discredited phrase being used still now, for an activity which has much in common with driving?
Still, to each their own. I will continue to remain teetotal during the day, and to exercise greater caution in the post-lunch period when a "large proportion of people" have impaired their judgment and ability.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@mk28, It is pretty simple, but it still happens and often there are other factors that contribute to the accident. Perhaps a third skier does something unexpected, you take avoiding action and get pushed towards some less forgiving snow. You then make a mistake and miss the turn.
I can't remember having ever been involved in a collision but I've witnessed one or two and although every collision is, theoretically, avoidable there are times when the level of carelessness involved is extremely small.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Here is a (typical) exclusion from a holiday policy
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You, your travelling companion, close relative or business associate being under the
influence of
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drugs (except those prescribed by your registered doctor but not when prescribed for
treatment of drug addiction)
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alcohol (a blood
alcohol level that exceeds 0.19%
–
approximately four pints or four
175ml glasses of wine)
; |
So a couple of beers at lunchtime is fine in their eyes, a skinful invalidates your insurance (or at least gives them the option)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
It certainly doesn't mean 'Get out of my way'.
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Not by you maybe, but it does when an ESF dude does it.
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| pieman666 wrote: |
Here is a (typical) exclusion from a holiday policy
| Quote: |
You, your travelling companion, close relative or business associate being under the
influence of
:
-
drugs (except those prescribed by your registered doctor but not when prescribed for
treatment of drug addiction)
;
-
alcohol (a blood
alcohol level that exceeds 0.19%
–
approximately four pints or four
175ml glasses of wine)
; |
So a couple of beers at lunchtime is fine in their eyes, a skinful invalidates your insurance (or at least gives them the option) |
As far as I know there's no legal requirement to submit to a blood test in the case of a ski accident. Proving that someone caused an accident by being inebriated is really quite difficult.
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It certainly doesn't mean 'Get out of my way'.
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if you're behind me and not intending to pass, then there's no need to tap.
if you tap, I can only assume someone is desperate to get past, or someone is being a dick too close behind me, and one of my turns caught them off guard and they pooped themselves. edit: ditto, but the god awful sound of a snowboarder scrape, that to me as a skier sounds like they panicked half a ski/board length behind me in my blind spot.
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"On your left/right"
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Which language? French, German, Italian, Russian, Polish or Czech?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| mk28 wrote: |
| I cant believe this is such an issue. Ive been skiing 28 years and have never hit someone. Ive been hit twice once by my mum when i was young and one french woman hit me from behind and fell over. I managed not to. What is hard about not hitting people? |
Strangely, people gravitate towards people. I've been alone on a piste and had someone almost collide with me as he tried to go between me and the edge of the piste (3m gap) rather than between me and the other edge (30m gap) 
I've seen nervous skiers, whom I know, declare themselves to be worried about collision, then quite unconsciously closely shadow a stranger down an otherwise uncrowded piste.
Standing on a fairly busy thoroughfare, you'll usually see waves of people come by. People group up, aside from groups who know each other - people, complete strangers, catch up with each other and then unconsciously match their speed and movement. It's quite fascinating to watch happen.
With all this in mind, it's not surprising that a few bumps occur.
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@foxtrotzulu, the only reason for shouting ior pole tapping is to get the skier in front to behave in a particular way. Otherwise there is no point in doing it. I know plenty of skiers who would be alarmed by that kind of noise coming from behind them.
Either you have enough room to safely pass, or you don't. If you don't have enough room you shouldn't require the person in front to behave in a way which allows you to pass.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Strangely, people gravitate towards people
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so true.
The last collision I witnessed was exactly that. Highish speed too. Exactly 2 people on the whole section of piste.
Last weekend I decided I ought to be a ski guide. Whenever I went to a completely empty section of a very wide (over 100m wide) piste, I'd be taking evasive turns within 2-3 turns. Wherever I ski, people follow. And whenever I turn, someone will want to ski 1m in front of my skis as I am just at that bottom 1/4 of a turn. Might schuss that entire piste next time.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Strangely, people gravitate towards people
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Objects as well, you should see junior skiing in the trees 
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I've been a skier for over 20 years and I'm a pole tapper when passing at slow speeds. When I'm with my group I say (on your right/left) , the group has changed over the years. Only a few of my group have picked up my habit. As some of the newer(younger) members of the group have improved , some will pass too close and I've had to tell them about it.
It might be that I'm getting older and becoming a miserable old git but it appears to me that newer members of the group need telling about piste etiquette even if they have had lessons. It may be a generalization that people need to be told about good practices rather than learn from observing good practice nowadays. They do politely listen to your advice if they take it on board or not.
In the last few years I've skied with boarders and have asked them about the problems that can occur between boarders and skiers. In my experience the boarders tend to be more willing to give and listen to advice than skiers.
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You know it makes sense.
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Agreed that making noises behind someone is pointless, at times even rude. Been skiing almost 40yrs and it still knocks me off my stot a bitwhen I get a shout from behind, so I fully understand where Rob is coming from regarding the effect this could have on timid learners. Surely best to stay quiet, let them continue to ski in the pattern they are skiing (rather than potentially cause them to make an unexpected manoeuvre) and pass when safe.
Because there is no universal meaning of a pole tap or shout. It depends on the user, and can mean anything from "overtaking right now" "hi, just letting you know i'm here" "passing you soon" "passing on the right/left". More confusing than helpful.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Which language? French, German, Italian, Russian, Polish or Czech?
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Easy. Same as English, only louder and prefixed with "I SAY!..."
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Poster: A snowHead
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Really dont think you should be shouting at someone in front of you or tapping your poles to pass them. Some people especially beginners are nervous enough as it is with you shouting on your left at them. They probably wont know what to do anyway. Either wait to see which way they are turning and go the other side or if its really narrow suck it up and wait a safe distance behind them until you can pass safely. The skier further down the hill has priority. They should be left to ski exactly how they want. If you cant pass safely without interrupting them then dont.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Strangely, people gravitate towards people.
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It's because people look at the object not the gap. It is surprisingly difficult to turn this one off. I imagine it's an evolved response to something. One of the harder things for me in learning to ski in trees was focusing on the gaps. A friend deliberately aims at the back of people's on the basis that they will no longer be there by the time he arrives. Works with skiers. Less good with trees.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Works with skiers. Less good with trees.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@andy,
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if you're behind me and not intending to pass, then there's no need to tap.
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Well, obviously.
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if you tap, I can only assume someone is desperate to get past
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Why assume they are 'desperate'? When you are driving down the autobahn and overtake another car are you 'desperate' to get past? No, you are just passing them. Have you never passed anyone on a cat track? If so, where you 'desperate' to get past?
@rob@rar,
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the only reason for shouting ior pole tapping is to get the skier in front to behave in a particular way. Otherwise there is no point in doing it. I know plenty of skiers who would be alarmed by that kind of noise coming from behind them.
Either you have enough room to safely pass, or you don't. If you don't have enough room you shouldn't require the person in front to behave in a way which allows you to pass.
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I'm sorry, but that's twaddle. On a narrow cat track where all skiers are skiing straight without any turns there can be plenty of room to pass another skier as long as they don't suddenly put in a massive turn right across the entire width of the run. I fully understand thay might occasionally wish to do this to scub off some speed but as they can't always be relied upon to notice skiers who are absolutely parallel with them then I certainly don't expect them to be aware that I might be slowly overtaking them. As to your point that 'there's no point in doing it [unless you want the skier in front to behave in a particular way]' then again I'd disagree. I simply want them to be aware there are other skiers close by. I can understand the noise of a snowboard scraping behind you might cause nervouis skiers some trepidation, I feel the same way, but a couple of gentle taps? No. For an inexperienced, nervous skier (we've all been there) the alternative of having someone pass you unexpectedly can be far worse.
By the same token, when I'm on a narrow piste and am about to change my recent skiing behaviour (e.g. start to put in some turns having been running straight, or pull over and stop) then I will usually stick out my arm almsot like a cyclist indicating (although that might look a bit daft so it looks more like a very advanced and slow pole plant). Again, it just seems like common courtesy and a sensible approach.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I can think of two.
1. Ban all sales of alcohol in mountain restaurants
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Excuse me, I think you dropped your badge
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
By the same token, when I'm on a narrow piste and am about to change my recent skiing behaviour (e.g. start to put in some turns having been running straight, or pull over and stop) then I will usually stick out my arm almsot like a cyclist indicating
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I do something like that sometimes if I'm conscious another skier is close behind. I generally do an exaggerated shoulder check (look over my shoulder like you would before manouvering on a bike) and try to get eye contact and give the skier behind a grin while pointing in the direction I'm planning on going in.
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1. Ban all sales of alcohol in mountain restaurants
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BTW - has anyone seen any stats showing that accidents are more common after lunch? Have to say that I've never noticed that the pistes felt more hazardous in the early afternoon. I'm much more wary about the general chaos last run down in busy weeks.
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| jedster wrote: |
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1. Ban all sales of alcohol in mountain restaurants
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BTW - has anyone seen any stats showing that accidents are more common after lunch? Have to say that I've never noticed that the pistes felt more hazardous in the early afternoon. I'm much more wary about the general chaos last run down in busy weeks. |
I've seen some stats that show that, but it could be more to do with tiredness than drink.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'm getting on a bit and definitely am a bit more cautious and slower that I used to be. I welcome the pole tappers because it lets me know that someone behind me is a) faster and vitally b) has seen me. I don't tend to do anything suddenly anyway but it is a good reminder for me. Similarly out on the bike where I overtake as much as get overtaken, I find the "on your right" call is appreciated, especially by horse riders.
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
@andy,
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if you're behind me and not intending to pass, then there's no need to tap.
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Well, obviously.
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if you tap, I can only assume someone is desperate to get past
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Why assume they are 'desperate'? When you are driving down the autobahn and overtake another car are you 'desperate' to get past? No, you are just passing them. Have you never passed anyone on a cat track? If so, where you 'desperate' to get past?
@rob@rar,
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the only reason for shouting ior pole tapping is to get the skier in front to behave in a particular way. Otherwise there is no point in doing it. I know plenty of skiers who would be alarmed by that kind of noise coming from behind them.
Either you have enough room to safely pass, or you don't. If you don't have enough room you shouldn't require the person in front to behave in a way which allows you to pass.
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I'm sorry, but that's twaddle. On a narrow cat track...SNIP |
I agree. Out in Whistler, on the narrow tracks, it is accepted custom to pole tap or give a call. Anyone too nervous for that should probably stay at home all wrapped up in cotton wool. What sort of people are you talking about Rob?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
@foxtrotzulu, the only reason for shouting ior pole tapping is to get the skier in front to behave in a particular way.
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I disagree I let people know I am behind them in order not to startle them when I do overtake.
It is completely reflexive to be startled if someone suddenly appears close to you whose presence you were unaware of and coming from behind on skis (or on a bike come to that) it is very easy to be unheard in ones approach.
If you make a noise at a reasonable distance the startle is less and the room to be startled into if one does is greater.
I just regard it as decent behaviour to let someone be aware of my presence.
I am not suggesting they should ski in a certain way, though if I am approached from behind and someone taps their poles I look to see and endeavour to make room.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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We've had the pole tap and the on your left/right discussion many times before.
What you think it means and what I think you mean are different.
I don't care if you're behind me at a safe distance, nor do I care if you pass me safely. If you can't pass safely, then stay back.
And the vocal communication makes no sense unless you know what language I understand (OK that could make sense in North America).
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@andy, it's nothing to do with being able to make the pass safely, I wouldn't be making the pass at all if I couldn't do it safely. As T Bar says, it's about not startling people when I suddenly appear beside them.
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You know it makes sense.
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Don't suddenly appear beside me. Pass with enough space that you can do a check or change your course, in the event that I change mine. Or don't pass. And don't ski on my tails either.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I normally sing. Barry Manilow usually does the trick. Not crashed into anyone since Mandy in '74
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Poster: A snowHead
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If there's one thing i've learned from this thread about pole tapping / making people aware of your presence is that about half of folk like it, and the other half don't.
Given that isn't going to change, I guess the best anyone can do is continue as they were and realise that half the world think the opposite about it, that it's no ones fault, and the only thing we can change is how we react to it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| andy wrote: |
| Don't suddenly appear beside me. Pass with enough space that you can do a check or change your course, in the event that I change mine. Or don't pass. And don't ski on my tails either. |
You can pass at a distance that will not hit someone but can still startle them on most cat tracks.
If you make someone aware of your presence through a noise at a reasonable distance this is less likely to happen, I certainly would not suggest doing it whilst sitting on someone's tails.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Would a discrete cough ... "ahem" ....be more acceptable to the grumpy brigade?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Frank Spencer wrote: |
| I normally sing. Barry Manilow usually does the trick. Not crashed into anyone since Mandy in '74 |
Bit obscure for the younger crowd - Retro hair metal means they recognise Livin' On A Prayer though: " Gina works the dinner all day...."
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Why is everyone skiing on a narrow path?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Pruman wrote: |
| Why is everyone skiing on a narrow path? |
We're all looking for fights.
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| Pruman wrote: |
| Why is everyone skiing on a narrow path? |
Because they have to be taken occasionally on most mountains, wide open pistes you have plenty enough room to never startle anyone if completely unheard.
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By all means feel good and pole tap. Just don't expect my interpretation of that to be what you think you are doing. I think it's just an impatient idiot behind trying to force their way thru where it's not safe to do so, probably because their mates are up ahead and they'll have to sit on the next chair lift all alone. Someone else might think "oh there's someone behind, don't do anything silly like moving to one side". Someone else might think "oh there's someone behind, they're coming past on the left/right, so move right/left in acknowledgement to give them a bit more space". Someone else is listening to techno thrash metal on their iPod.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I would point out the pole tapping is anti boarder 😜
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| andy says wrote: |
| Don't suddenly appear beside me. Pass with enough space that you can do a check or change your course, in the event that I change mine. Or don't pass. And don't ski on my tails either. |
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FAQ
