Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@BobinCH, every time I see a view like that of Verbier, it's crazy how big/ how many buildings are up there. How long until the buildings reach the top of Savoleyres?
After all it is free
After all it is free
Live trip report from the stunning new restaurant at the bottom of Chassoure/Tortin.
I can tell you that the sky is blue, the temperature is the perfect degree of cold, and the snow is fantastic!
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Wow...just watching some very skilled/dangerous helicopter rescue on a very exposed part on Mont Gele.
Be careful out there
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Dumpage and blue sky?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Is the Avalanche scale any use in real ice?
It is a 3 today in Verbier...but I've seen slides all over the place.
Almost all the usual routes down the Lac side of Mont Gele have slid...and slid a long way.
Valor D'Arbis is closed with a poster posted on the netting to stop anyone ignoring the closed sign. I've never seen that before.
So what does it take to make it a 4 ?
I strongly believe that as it is a peak holiday week the powers that be just don't want to go to 4 for publicity reasons
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@rungsp, 3 is pretty high from a scale of 5, sounds about right??
3 considerable / erheblich / marque / marcato
The snowpack is moderately to weakly bonded on many steep slopes
Triggering is possible, sometimes even with low additional loads. The bulletin may indicate many slopes that are particularly affected. In certain conditions, medium and occasionally large sized natural avalanches may occur.
Traffic and individual buildings in hazardous areas are at risk in certain cases. Precautions should be taken in these areas.
Only experienced persons able to evaluate avalanche hazard should carry out off-piste skiing and travel. Steep slopes of the aspect and altitude indicate should be avoided.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@kitenski, sure...but in real life it is stuck on 3 for weeks at a time, and in those weeks there are bug all slides.
So 3 become normalized in people's perception as being an ordinary day.
Today the rush was clearly (as evidenced by many slides) more risky.
Still a 3 though.
It's all very well quoting the paragraph, but that isn't how the great majority of skiers look at it.
They glance at the display.
"OH, still.3, just like the last weeks...all good then"
You may know what 3 means, I know what 3 means...thousands think it means "no change"
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@rungsp, it was 3+ today.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Attelas couloirs full of wind blown snow first thing
We're heading out next weekend. A few newbie questions, if you don't mind.
First time skiing in Switzerland, where's the best place online to find the avalanche forecast in English? My French is basic. Edit: Thanks to Pistehors (Davidof?) I've found whiterisk.ch.
Are there any recommendations for basic/cheap and cheerful (I realise it's all relative) places to stop for lunch/coffee/afternoon beers?
Also any recommendations for dinner in Nendaz?
I'm also hoping some of the group we're going with will join me on a few of the blacks. Are there any that are recommended as a more gentle place to start?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
(Not all pages in English but the key ones usually are...)
Easiest black a very short one at lac des vaux, another on the side of the red run (M25) from attelas to ruinettes, nice one in Bruson. Some like Mt Fort & Plan de Fou have steep mogulled starts then nice run outs
Before you head off to dinner, when you come down the home run at the very end don’t head to the right side, go to the left and have your après in the Cheers Bar. It is a great place right on the side of the slope:
We are creatures of habit so the places we find ourselves heading back to the most are:
Burgers:
3330 Alt Bar, Rte des Ecluses 28, 1997 Nendaz
Italian:
Savi, Rte des Ecluses 24, 1997 Nendaz
Meat on hot stones:
Le Grenier, Rte de la Télécabine 40, 1997 Nendaz
Cheerful pizza:
Restaurant Osteria il Trullo, Rte des Ecluses 12, 1997 Nendaz
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Sonmi451 wrote:
I'm also hoping some of the group we're going with will join me on a few of the blacks. Are there any that are recommended as a more gentle place to start?
I absolutely love the 4 valleys and ski there a lot (I’ll be back there in a fortnight). However, strangely I wouldn’t say its black runs were (relatively) its strength - certainly compared to the out of this world itineraries and off piste and its lovely cruisy reds.
Probably the best black to take a decent red run skier to is Ethérolla. It is in the Thyon sector on the far left hand side of the piste map. It can get icy (like all blacks I guess) but if it is not it is a good run and not too demanding.
The one you need to be careful with is the one you will come across at the end of each day as you head back to Nendaz. The black from Plan du Fou down to Prarion gets battered by the sun and can be an ice sheet all the way down, coupled with bare patches and skiers lying prostrate worrying about the choice they have made. I have friends who are reasonably good skiers who routinely stay on the lift up from Siviez over to Prarion rather than jump off and do the black down.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
That's great, thanks for the tips everyone!
After all it is free
After all it is free
The run I think @JohnMo is referring to is described in this thread about Skiing the itineraire on the Nendaz side of Plan du Fou here
If you want to ski the Verbier hub of which Nendaz is a satellite, then you can either drive or get the bus to Siviez, or ski over via Prarion and the Plan du Fou ridge down to Siviez. You then get a chair up the valley to Tortin. From there, you either get the télécabine up to Lac des Vaux, or the big gondola up to Col des Gentianes/Mt.Fort.
Last edited by After all it is free on Sat 24-02-24 23:10; edited 2 times in total
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
LaForet wrote:
The run I think @JohnMo is referring to is described in this thread about Nendaz here
Yes. That is the one. The itinerary on skiers left can also be very good or a nightmare depending on conditions.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
To orient yourself ahead of the trip, here’s a scale plan map of the 4 Vallées showing the main zones and satellites.
Note: This is provided without liability - it’s just something I’ve drawn up myself for our own clients. You would not use it as a map for an actual excursion. I don’t update it more than once a year, so specific runs/lifts may change. Always use the official piste map for planning your excursions and for directions.
The other area I’d give a warning about is the Chassoure mogul field. It’s shown on the map above. A lot depends on your mogul-handling ability and stamina. The field is long and wide: once you drop down to it there is no pisted area at the side and you are committed. So I’d always suggest you take the gondola that runs betwen Lac des Vaux and Tortin first and take a look before trying it. You ascend above it if as mentioned previously, you are coming up from Siviez and at Tortin take the gondola on the right up to Lac des Vaux. If you’re returning home from the Verbier sector, then you’d probably come back that way - many skiers take the gondola down to Tortin rather than ski chassoure.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Sat 24-02-24 23:26; edited 1 time in total
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
JohnMo wrote:
LaForet wrote:
The run I think @JohnMo is referring to is described in this thread about Nendaz here
Yes. That is the one. The itinerary on skiers left can also be very good or a nightmare depending on conditions.
Excellent. I have done that itinerary many times (it used to be the only way down before they created the black run on skiers right) - I have never done it in conditions like that!
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Sonmi451 wrote:
Are there any recommendations for basic/cheap and cheerful (I realise it's all relative) places to stop for lunch/coffee/afternoon beers?
Also any recommendations for dinner in Nendaz?
I'm also hoping some of the group we're going with will join me on a few of the blacks. Are there any that are recommended as a more gentle place to start?
La Tétine off the Tortin chair above Siviez is a nice spot for a glass of wine in the sunshine
The best run in Nendaz (and one of the best pistes in the 4 valleys) is the Plan de Fou red down to Siviez. And if you want to try some off piste, take the Combatseline chair from Siviez and then the Greppon Blanc drag lift. Traversing right off the top of the Greppon Blanc drag lift gives you lots of space for fresh tracks which all drop back down to the lift. If you carry on round the corner, it takes you into the trees and you come out onto the Combatseline piste - see the video at the top of the page
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
A quick lap of Ba Combe on Saturday morning with the kids
@BobinCH I’m thinking of attending a Warren Smith clinic next December, at some in the first three weeks.
Would it be pretty much guaranteed that Verbier would have sufficient snow at that time? I’m relaxed about the course content when it comes round, that is, not bothered if there’s fresh powder or not.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Snow&skifan wrote:
@BobinCH I’m thinking of attending a Warren Smith clinic next December, at some in the first three weeks.
Would it be pretty much guaranteed that Verbier would have sufficient snow at that time? I’m relaxed about the course content when it comes round, that is, not bothered if there’s fresh powder or not.
Nothing is guaranteed these days but Verbier is a good bet for an early season trip due to the altitude, aspect and upgraded snow making. The December just gone was spectacular
@BobinCH I’m thinking of attending a Warren Smith clinic next December, at some in the first three weeks.
Would it be pretty much guaranteed that Verbier would have sufficient snow at that time? I’m relaxed about the course content when it comes round, that is, not bothered if there’s fresh powder or not.
Nothing is guaranteed these days but Verbier is a good bet for an early season trip due to the altitude, aspect and upgraded snow making. The December just gone was spectacular
Is the Avalanche scale any use in real ice?
It is a 3 today in Verbier...but I've seen slides all over the place.
Almost all the usual routes down the Lac side of Mont Gele have slid...and slid a long way.
Valor D'Arbis is closed with a poster posted on the netting to stop anyone ignoring the closed sign. I've never seen that before.
Remember that
i) Level 3 = considerable risk (i.e avalanches expected)
ii) The international scale is 1-5. However level 5 is seldom used more than once every 2-3 years (danger to building and infrastructure).
So effectively the avalanche scale is just 1-4 with level-3 being 75% of the scale in normal usage.
rungsp wrote:
So what does it take to make it a 4 ?
In very simple terms...
Level 3 = human triggered avalanches likely
Level 4 = natural avalanches likely
The scale takes little consideration of the size of resulting avalanches which may occur.
rungsp wrote:
I strongly believe that as it is a peak holiday week the powers that be just don't want to go to 4 for publicity reasons
The SLF are very good and methodical at what they do. World leaders in avalanche forecast.
They are also certainly independent on televerbier.
Ultimately the real problem is that most folk have no idea what level 3 (considerable) actually means.
In part because of the way the levels (1-5) are described.
Is the Avalanche scale any use in real ice?
It is a 3 today in Verbier...but I've seen slides all over the place.
Almost all the usual routes down the Lac side of Mont Gele have slid...and slid a long way.
Valor D'Arbis is closed with a poster posted on the netting to stop anyone ignoring the closed sign. I've never seen that before.
Remember that
i) Level 3 = considerable risk (i.e avalanches expected)
ii) The international scale is 1-5. However level 5 is seldom used more than once every 2-3 years (danger to building and infrastructure).
So effectively the avalanche scale is just 1-4 with level-3 being 75% of the scale in normal usage.
rungsp wrote:
So what does it take to make it a 4 ?
In very simple terms...
Level 3 = human triggered avalanches likely
Level 4 = natural avalanches likely
The scale takes little consideration of the size of resulting avalanches which may occur.
rungsp wrote:
I strongly believe that as it is a peak holiday week the powers that be just don't want to go to 4 for publicity reasons
The SLF are very good and methodical at what they do. World leaders in avalanche forecast.
They are also certainly independent on televerbier.
Ultimately the real problem is that most folk have no idea what level 3 (considerable) actually means.
In part because of the way the levels (1-5) are described.
SLF aka Whiterisk now differentiate between 3-, 3= and 3+ and when looking at the visible avalanche activity there is a considerable difference between them. 3+ was the level when there was the huge avi on Highway last year
https://whiterisk.ch/en/conditions
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@BobinCH, wish the Austrian's would develop an app like whiterisk, it's so good.
After all it is free
After all it is free
BobinCH wrote:
SLF aka Whiterisk now differentiate between 3-, 3= and 3+ and when looking at the visible avalanche activity there is a considerable difference between them. 3+ was the level when there was the huge avi on Highway last year
I think that sub dividing the level-3 category (3-, 3 or 3+) is very sensible.
The SAIS in Scotland do something similar on their avalanche rose (using dashed section of level 2/3 or 3/4) to distinguish between "widespread" and "localised" hazard.
A huge part of the problem is that wider public don't really understand the international scale and what level-3 actually means.
As you observe above - it is still possible to get very large human triggered avalanches at level-3.
As ever with avalanche forecasting the devil is often in the detail rather than just the headline number.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I was caught out last weekend. I read the avi forecast at 6.30am and it showed 3- which reassured me. I made a route finding error and ended up in a rarely skied and heavily wind loaded couloir on the South side of Mont Gelé. I sideslipped a ridge to get down but triggered a consequential avalanche in the process. Fortunately I was above the fracture line and there was no one below me. When reflecting afterwards on my decisions and actions I re-checked the avi report. It had been upgraded to 3+ at 8am. I wouldn’t have skied that face if I had seen it was 3+. Some lessons learned…
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Here is the definition of level-3. Pretty much as you describe? Isolated hazards specific to certain (wind loaded) locations.
I think it's useful to have 3- and 3+ as a headline but even then it is highly dependent on detail (i.e aspects, altitude and terrain).
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
