 Poster: A snowHead
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Thanks all for earlier advice.
Grom now has Agent 3.0 with Shifts as a first foray.
I’m torn between
Atomic Backland 98 w in 156 or 164
Or
Backland 85 in 158
Skiing mixed in the Valais
I am 170 tall and 64kg with trashed acl. I’ve been told by some to go shorter than alpine but others say ‘you’ll have a pack weighing you down so go longer…’
My normal skis at the moment are youth mantras at 158 with 86 waist - brilliant skis
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Going shorter will help with the kick turns if your hip flexibility isn’t what it could be. Otherwise, I’d stick with your usual length or thereabouts
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Get a splitboard 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@hang11, ...just stop that....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@valais2, my OH is 167 & 52kg her go to touring ski is 171 Pagoda Tour @ 106 waist and that is her go to piste ski, plus she is an athletic 70 yr old!
Modern touring ski design is such that you can get away with circa 100wide that are proficient in both cold and Spring snow, and those skis also boast tip and tail rocker so the actual edge contact might only be 85% of the length, however kick turning you'll still have the length to deal with.
Also as someone with past ACL knee issues I like something more substantial under my feet that a twitchy edge grabbing ski in a technical snow pack.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Weathercam, thanks indeed - very helpful
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I'm not convinced by the ‘you’ll have a pack weighing you down so go longer…’. Most of my touring is day tours in non-glacial terrain, and normally staying away from any mountaineering (so no axe, rope or crampons), and my pack is not much heavier than for a lift served day - normally the extra is the skins and some extra food and drink. If you're doing multi-day tours, or need mountaineering or glacier kit, then the pack weight will go up, but you'd normally ski more conservatively and would welcome a reduction of weight on your feet.
For the last few years I've mostly used one pair of skis for touring and lift-served, so I'm not used to having noticeably different dimensions of skis. But if I were to get something specifically for touring, I wouldn't expect to change dimensions much - maybe slightly skinnier if I were more focussed on uphill performance
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@Weathercam, I’ve been looking on Everide and Le Bon coin FB group as was suggested on a thread I put up about a second hand set up (or putting shifts on a current pair of skis).
Nearly all the skis in a length and width I’m looking at are being sold by women. Anything sold by men seem to be 180cm+ and wide as. Not many set ups being sold anywhere near the Pyrenees either!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@hammerite, ...Er that’s exactly my experience too...and uiagm guides I have spoken to tend to use quite narrow widths - 85 mainly, and no longer than 171. We’ll experiment a bit and report back....
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@valais2, I'm only really looking at a touring set up to keep fitter throughout the season. I can tour after work in the evenings on piste/side of piste nothing too adventurous. At weekends when I have more time, I'll probably not be touring and using the lifts. I don't need super wide skis here - we don't get that much powder.
When I've hired this season, they've given me fairly short skis and 80-ish mm.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| valais2 wrote: |
Thanks all for earlier advice.
Grom now has Agent 3.0 with Shifts as a first foray.
I’m torn between
Atomic Backland 98 w in 156 or 164
Or
Backland 85 in 158
Skiing mixed in the Valais
I am 170 tall and 64kg with trashed acl. I’ve been told by some to go shorter than alpine but others say ‘you’ll have a pack weighing you down so go longer…’
My normal skis at the moment are youth mantras at 158 with 86 waist - brilliant skis |
Your kid is on a downhill oriented, relatively heavy rig (1700g ski, 900g binding). Those 98 W’s are the same weight as the 85’s (1200g) so probably a fair bit softer. Do not put Shifts on either of those skis. You want a 300g tech binding like the ATK Evo or RT. What boots have you got or are you getting new ones?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks Bob - the Grom wants to go up some cols to access stashes so we thought we’d try the Factions as a first stab - got total package unused for 350gbp. I thought I would now build a lightweight set and we can swap over to build experience.
How protective of my acl will the atk be?
I’ve been looking into F Tectons and comparing those with Shifts
Trying on some Cosmos boots later today…
Many thanks
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| valais2 wrote: |
Thanks Bob - the Grom wants to go up some cols to access stashes so we thought we’d try the Factions as a first stab - got total package unused for 350gbp. I thought I would now build a lightweight set and we can swap over to build experience.
How protective of my acl will the atk be?
I’ve been looking into F Tectons and comparing those with Shifts
Trying on some Cosmos boots later today…
Many thanks |
If you're looking to save weight and protect your knees then fritschis and lighter boots would be a good middle ground, I get on with shifts and don't find them to be too heavy but would probably go to the fritschis if I had to chose something else. It all depends on what you expect from the setup, I personally enjoy the quiet and solitude (even shared solitude) of the up and revel in the down, I also don't want to harm my legs (I've escaped so far!) so shifts fit my needs perfectly fine. You might want to push your ACL risk appetite in order to factor in more performance gains on the up.
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You know it makes sense.
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I guess the other factor to consider in protecting your knees is the release characteristics of tech bindings and also how lighter skis potentially won't smash thru crud/crappy snow like heavier ones?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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No not Cosmos!!!!! Zero G, always forever, every time!!!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| valais2 wrote: |
Thanks Bob - the Grom wants to go up some cols to access stashes so we thought we’d try the Factions as a first stab - got total package unused for 350gbp. I thought I would now build a lightweight set and we can swap over to build experience.
How protective of my acl will the atk be?
I’ve been looking into F Tectons and comparing those with Shifts
Trying on some Cosmos boots later today…
Many thanks |
I would not get a plastic Fritschi binding again after one failed on me. I have 2 reconstructed ACL’s and ATK is the tech binding I trust most.
Another vote for Zero-G, both the Pro Tour @1500g and the Peak Carbon @1000g
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| valais2 wrote: |
Thanks Bob - the Grom wants to go up some cols to access stashes so we thought we’d try the Factions as a first stab - got total package unused for 350gbp. I thought I would now build a lightweight set and we can swap over to build experience.
How protective of my acl will the atk be?
I’ve been looking into F Tectons and comparing those with Shifts
Trying on some Cosmos boots later today…
Many thanks |
I would not get a plastic Fritschi binding again after one failed on me. I have 2 reconstructed ACL’s and ATK is the tech binding I trust most.
Another vote for Zero-G, both the Pro Tour @1500g and the Peak Carbon @1000g |
Did you have a non-carbon tecton break on you? I've heard the carbon ones are pretty tough... 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@CH2O, oh…I haven’t been able to track any down in 25…
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@valais2, if you read past all the actual reviews here there is some good text on how/what to choose based on what you'll be doing and how often, it's about 65% of the way down the page, entitled Buyers Guide: How to Choose Backcountry Ski Bindings
https://gearjunkie.com/winter/best-backcountry-ski-bindings
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Tectons are very different to Xenics, which is the binding Bob had an issue with I think.
I would never say a binding is bad/good for fear of invoking Sods Law 
As I'm sure most on here appreciate I do clock up a fair amount of hours on touring gear both up and down and all tech bindings can occasionally be PITA though Tectons are a solid binding but I no longer use them, using the lighter Xenics
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I don’t get the point of a 700g Fritschi or Marker tech binding? 300g ATK skis well and releases perfectly
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| I don’t get the point of a 700g Fritschi or Marker tech binding? 300g ATK skis well and releases perfectly |
And absolute madness to put one on a 1200g ski
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Or easier to just lose a couple of kgs of body weight, just like as in cycling, far cheaper and easier 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Few friends had whole bunch of problems with Fritschi too, so when getting new bindings ATK was only choice. Not super happy with them either (ATK Freerider 14 on one pair and Freerider 15 EVO on other), but at least I didn't need to walk back for several hours in waist deep snow yet, so I would pick them again. They are really light but considering my "light and narrow" setup has almost 2000g skis (per ski not pair), I guess you can imagine low weight isn't main priority.
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| primoz wrote: |
| Few friends had whole bunch of problems with Fritschi too, so when getting new bindings ATK was only choice. Not super happy with them either (ATK Freerider 14 on one pair and Freerider 15 EVO on other), but at least I didn't need to walk back for several hours in waist deep snow yet, so I would pick them again. They are really light but considering my "light and narrow" setup has almost 2000g skis (per ski not pair), I guess you can imagine low weight isn't main priority. |
What problems have you had with the ATK’s?
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You know it makes sense.
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Few unexpected releases. Something what really shouldn't have happen at least no at those conditions, at that speed and at that skiing. But once I set them the way one of ATK technicians told me to set them (not like it's in manual), they were fine... it's just mental now that after 2 or years, I still don't trust them 100%. Other then this, it's awesome binding, so for pin binding, definitely best pick if someone ask me.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| primoz wrote: |
| Few unexpected releases. Something what really shouldn't have happen at least no at those conditions, at that speed and at that skiing. But once I set them the way one of ATK technicians told me to set them (not like it's in manual), they were fine... it's just mental now that after 2 or years, I still don't trust them 100%. Other then this, it's awesome binding, so for pin binding, definitely best pick if someone ask me. |
I’ve never had a pre-release on FR14 and I ski them hard. How did he tell you to set them up? Standard practice is 4mm heel space
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Poster: A snowHead
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Basically to reduce that 4mm gap to 1-1.5mm, crank binding slightly higher (ATK numbers are just that... numbers not DIN corresponding number like I'm used to from alpine), so basically I'm skiing them at 13 or 14 nowadays (which is slightly less then my GS skis are set even though forces and speed are nowhere near my GS skiing ) and probably most important what's proper procedure when put them on for skiing mode... Basically, pin toes in, wiggle boot forth and back few times, like walking, get heel in, lock toe part, unlock toe part and then you are ready to go. No idea if only one of this would help or only all of these together help, but now they release when they need to release and in general they stay on when they should stay on. But as I wrote, there's still little worm back of my head when going hard where I would really prefer skis to stay on feet, rather then have some unwanted release.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@BobinCH, problem was, that all those 2 or 3 releases happened on super easy terrain with really low speed, no real power on skis and soft snow so no harsh hits or anything. While big part of my skiing might be with way more power and speed that normal ski tourers do, this one, where I had those releases, was actually something what pretty much anyone could and does ski. But as I wrote, after these changes, I had one release, which was probably quite ok and binding most likely should release in situation like this, and no other issues whatsoever, so probably they are just fine 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| primoz wrote: |
| @BobinCH, problem was, that all those 2 or 3 releases happened on super easy terrain with really low speed, no real power on skis and soft snow so no harsh hits or anything. While big part of my skiing might be with way more power and speed that normal ski tourers do, this one, where I had those releases, was actually something what pretty much anyone could and does ski. But as I wrote, after these changes, I had one release, which was probably quite ok and binding most likely should release in situation like this, and no other issues whatsoever, so probably they are just fine |
Was the 4mm giving too much room for ski flex and releasing the heel? I thought the ATKs had a self adjusting heel?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Thomasski, no idea what really was reason for those releases. Only thing I can be sure about is, that it definitely wasn't speed, bumps or some extreme forces, as it really was just super easy cruising down soft snow. But when talking with few ATK guys (technicians and their sponsored riders) all said right away "forget 4mm, go with 1mm gap".
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FAQ
