 Poster: A snowHead
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Amongst the pile of boots we have a few pairs of FullTilts - the evolution shell. One feature we bought them for was avoidance of shin bang - a widely commented asset of the design. After resolving the problem of very floppy tongues - installed 10s to replace 6 and 8 which are not as stiff as stated - and swapped liners around experimentally - intuition wrap versions and trad pattern FT tongue liners - we got to using them in earnest. Grom liked them but found them a bit soft for piste use, liked them in park. My experience was different - good adjustments in shell to relieve pressure points but after a couple hours - every time - I had really sore shins. This seemed weird since reduction of shin bang such a hyped property of them. They went into the pile with a halo of disappointment. Roll on a year and I’ve just read a review which talks of shin pain with FTs … which is interesting … anyone else?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@valais2, I've had FT for a few years now, never had any shin pain at al. I only learnt this year that they're popular with the park users, makes mesee a bit edgy and radical as opposed to the middle aged desk jockey I really am 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@valais2, I haven't skiied the evolution only the classic (aka raichle flexon replica) and I've never had sore shins (or indeed in flexons).
FWIW I heard a gear interview with Bode Miller in which he said he'd always been interested in flexons when he was racing but couldnt try them for sponsorship reasons. Tried the FT evolutions and couldn't see why anyone would like them (poor lateral stability). Finally found a pair of classics gave them a go and thought the were brilliant. He figured the mods FT made to broaden the appeal of the flexon design in the evolution had compromised the whole design.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@jedster, @nbt, many thanks …. Good to have your takes …
Nbt … delight in the feeling of being edgy and radical … I get those vibes from wherever I can get them.
Use of the term ‘vibes’ shows that I am an old giffer.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Anyone else?
No
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@valais2, most likely the 10 tongue is too stiff for you. Being linear rather than progressive flex they are just as stiff at start of ‘travel’ as at the end, so you get the full ‘force’ immediately, rather than progressively getting stiffer.
I’m sure I read somewhere that you are ~60kg? I’d have thought that the 6 or 8 flex tongues would be fine for you… Did you try them in the cold ir only in the shop/at home?
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Sounds like a technique problem
Perhaps some lessons would help
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@clarky999 … thanks .. we did a few hours with the softer tongues and then went to the 10. Perhaps we were indeed too hasty. I shall try moving back through 8 and then 6 and see how it goes. Good thought.
@Whitegoldsbrother, …hmmm….was in Lange RX110s for a few months then switched to the FTs…my overall crapness was about the same in each, but the Lange were fine and the FT were not. So it did seem that it was associated with the boots…
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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There are two ways to look at "pain" in ski boots. First is what the ski boot does to the foot and leg, and second, what the foot/leg does inside the ski boot.
The first is generally super easy to fix, the second requires a deeper understanding of what's happening inside. No design of ski boots is more or less successful than another, and i don't see anything "special" about a FT/Raichle/K2 "3 piece" boots over a 2 piece overlap design. Technique is unlikely to be the issue, so you can let your ego be happy there. Given you've tried both with similar results it's most likely a biomechanical issue. There are some simple ways to test this. Firstly remove all spoilers at the back of the boots, wether that be a velco attached one, or a screwed one, remove it. Then if possible, place the spoiler inbetween the wrap of the liner, if it's a tongue liner then place it against the tongue neatly. Essentially this will engage the boot earlier and require that you activate the flex earlier, less need for the ankle to flex too far through the boot. You can supplement this by adding a neatly folded sock into the front to infront of the spoiler you have added. It's completely against logic and the usual nonsense of being more "aggressive" or having more forward lean, which is just stupid. Second, you can remove the liner and add something hard, around 10mm thick and 10cm long under your heel on the base board of the shell. Cut it nice and round at the back and profile it into a wedge if you can, back being thicker, towards the toes thinner. A series of 3mm thicknesses, 3 times, each 1cm shorter than the first, longest on the base board, and shorter by shorter on top of the last should be fine. The stiffer tongue will give you better results, forget going softer unless you're a jibblet. You should be using a well made custom footbed too. All custom footbeds are not the same, they're only as good as the person making them, Colin in the Uk is really good at this, to my eyes the only person in the UK actually making a functional footbed. This will ensure minimum "overworking" of the foot, removing this a possible cause. Let us know how you get on.
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@CH2O, ...nice set of progressive things to tune and get the feeling of each change. Nice. Many thanks.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| valais2 wrote: |
@Whitegoldsbrother, …hmmm….was in Lange RX110s for a few months then switched to the FTs…my overall crapness was about the same in each, but the Lange were fine and the FT were not. So it did seem that it was associated with the boots… |
Sorry, my comment was said tongue in cheek, my weak attempt at humour.
On topic, I run First Chair 120s which I think have a 10 flex tongue. Never had a problem with them.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Whitegoldsbrother, no problem…I wish we could have a ‘tone of voice’ feature….
Right…
This is from a review of the Ascendant (at https://blisterreview.com/gear-reviews/2018-2019-full-tilt-ascendant) and I think reflects what I am experiencing on my Descendants….
‘….My biggest frustration with the Descendant I reviewed a few years ago was its low cuff. I felt like my shins were getting beat up more, and I was dealing with different pressure points than I did with other boots. The Ascendant still has that lower cuff, but I didn’t notice it quite as much, in part I think because I was skiing better snow. That lower cuff is my one reservation about skiing this boot in bad snow inbounds, and I’ll report back once I’ve done that…’
We were skiing complete manque/mank over New Year - chop, crud, ice, slush, crust, humps - all in 100 metres…not complaining since such variation is the spice of life…but my right shin was indeed ‘beat up’ (American). I had to maintain a lot of forward pressure, and certainly had some shin bang too. That was in both the Intuition wrap liner and the FT tongue liner….
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Specifically I'm using a 2018 First Chair 6 with the original liner: I think the tongue on that has a 6 flex rating? I weigh around 70kg, I'm a reasonable skiier for a brit who gets a couple of weeks each year. I've never felt the need to get a stiffer tongue but then I don't really know what kind of sensation would lead me to understand that I needed one...
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You know it makes sense.
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Interesting! We felt we were collapsing the boot occasionally on the 6 - I think we will go back to softer tongues and see…
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