 Poster: A snowHead
|
| homphomp wrote: |
| Hurtle wrote: |
@homphomp,
| Quote: |
it's the priority to the right rule that will get you if you travel off the main routes in France
|
It never ceases to amaze me, and frighten me to death, that people still apply this, considering it's many decades since the rule was abolished! |
It hasn't been abolished! Still applies in many urban areas, quiet rural lanes, at things that look like roundabouts but aren't  and in the heads of a bunch of older drivers who simply don't care if you're heading down the main road in front of them!!!! |
Golly, I didn't realise that it had only been abolished on main roads. (I do always look on other roads, just in case - grew up with the rule, so it's sort of second nature, though I would never gaily swan in from the right myself.)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
@Hurtle, I always assume that other drivers will gaily swan in whether they have the right of way or not!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Sometimes, when driving round "la France profonde" you get a glimpse of what folk used to call a "motoring holiday". Even if one doesn't quite have the right sort of motor.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| homphomp wrote: |
| Hurtle wrote: |
@homphomp,
| Quote: |
it's the priority to the right rule that will get you if you travel off the main routes in France
|
It never ceases to amaze me, and frighten me to death, that people still apply this, considering it's many decades since the rule was abolished! |
It hasn't been abolished! Still applies in many urban areas, quiet rural lanes, at things that look like roundabouts but aren't and in the heads of a bunch of older drivers who simply don't care if you're heading down the main road in front of them!!!! |
It's very rare that you'll get these on a 'main' road, mostly going through villages on D (Departmental as opposed to National) roads. Look out, as someone else said, for the diamond crossed out sign on entry to a village, which means the p-a-d applies within that village. but also note that 90-odd percent of the time there will be an X sign https://expatsfrance.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/2020-05-29-2.png before the junction to warn you of it, certainly on the ones that locals are most likely to come straight out of.
I treat these much as I would a normal British give way, i.e. I slow down enough to get a good view in advance enough to stop or just continue at a reasonable pace. Some drivers, though, will come to a virtual stop before each such junction, so the main danger is not so much cars coming out as cars in front of you stopping where you might not expect it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
@Chaletbeauroc,
| Quote: |
the main danger is not so much cars coming out as cars in front of you stopping where you might not expect it.
|
Not to mention cautious people like me, who will stop to look even if they don't strictly need to do so, and then get rear-ended by an over-enthusiastic person behind!
Minefield!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, I did it!
Sfab/eosb & back without paying french tolls
Overall mpg from a 2.3l Ducato L1H1 was 38.1mpg, this would have been 39.5 if I hadn't had the hammer down fro S Yorks to Dover after a 2.5 hr delay due to a lorry fire.
I didn't bother with overnight stops, just drove till I felt tired then stopped & set my alarm for a 30 minute nap.
I had plenty of time each way, lorries were no problem, just sit behind them & get better mpg.
Travelling back from the sopib a few years ago we were cruising at max speed limits to catch a tunnel crossing, mpg was 28 on that journey.
So,
Total fuel cost was £351 vs £492 if I had taken the longer/faster autoroute at the speed limits, £141saved + £350 in tolls (2m+ van)
£491 saved = ~£700 earned
In real terms, I think it took me about 10 hrs longer, overall
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@tangowaggon, have you got your route saved anywhere, would be interested to see it..... also have you considered the hull ferry esp outbound?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| ajc2260626 wrote: |
| @tangowaggon, have you got your route saved anywhere, would be interested to see it..... also have you considered the hull ferry esp outbound? |
I didn't save the route, just let google maps take me wherever on the avoid tolls option.
The Hull ferry takes 12 hrs & £900+!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@tangowaggon, I found the hull ferry not that much more when you combined the less miles that you drive etc...... but I think that I paid about £200 for the tunnel one way
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Dover - Calais, UK driving + crossing is 7.5 hrs for me, feryy was £248 return but I saved £75 via tesco points.
Hull - Rott is 14.5 hrs
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
I followed this one
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@tangowaggon, interesting.
I think driving a van skews it a lot.
We drive a diesel estate which is pretty economical in general but far more so motorway driving than in a town/suburbs so toll wise we would save less than half the amount you did and less diesel wise.
And doubling the journey time is a killer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
It's very rare that you'll get these on a 'main' road, |
Not that rare, the basic rule is priority from the right unless otherwise indicated by signs and that can be on main roads you are driving along at 80kph.
Dangerous to assume that rules in other countries are the same as "back home". (Yes I know back home for you is France/CH)
I agree the rule, on roads where you may be travelling at speed and where small side roads may not be obvious is complete lunacy. One thing to note, priority from the right onto a 2 or 3 lane highway (they do exist!) is only the nearside lane. You can't bowl out into the outside lane - a friend of mine experienced this and the accident wrote of his car.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Fri 26-04-24 16:35; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Layne wrote: |
@tangowaggon, interesting.
I think driving a van skews it a lot.
We drive a diesel estate which is pretty economical in general but far more so motorway driving than in a town/suburbs so toll wise we would save less than half the amount you did and less diesel wise.
And doubling the journey time is a killer. |
The van skews it a lot!
2x autoroute tolls & fuel consumption is much more speed dependant
The 2.0 Citroën C5 I had was good for 70 mpg at the speeds I was travelling at in the van/ 50mpg at 130kmh autoroute speeds
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| homphomp wrote: |
It hasn't been abolished! Still applies in many urban areas, quiet rural lanes, |
It actually still applies literally everywhere, unless there's signage to disapply it.
So the diamond signs, stop signs, give way signs and the red-topped posts you get at the end of a road are all indicators of the status of a road. Of course, this means an element of redundancy in the signage as they'll also put up signs where it does apply, as this is not that frequent. Thirty seconds on Google maps found me this:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/TR1SAQWKuoC5KXu37
Here you can see a white post with a red top. This indicates to the driver on the main road that the side road has to give way to him. Scroll to the left and you will see the other white post. You will also see a Give Way sign which is there to indicate to the driver on the side road that he has to give way.
But when you join the side road you can see in front of you a red triangle with a cross in it (a sign we sometimes see in England indicating an unmarked crossroads, the bête noire of every driving test student). This warns you that, on the road you have just joined, priorité a droite applies; so anybody coming out of a road joining this minor road has priority over anybody on the less minor road - provided they're coming from the right (i.e. the side of the road on which one drives in France).
What I don't know is whether people joining from, say, their front drive or a layby have priority over traffic on the road.
In the grand scheme of things it's not really something you have to worry much about - any more than in England. (Of course we don't actually have priority from the left, but we do sometimes have ambiguous crossroads where nobody has priority.)
I don't know about this myth of older drivers. They used to say that forty years ago, and those older drivers must be long dead!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Quote: |
Not that rare, the basic rule is priority from the right unless otherwise indicated by signs and that can be on main roads you are driving along at 80kph.
|
When I first rode in France this rule also applied to roundabouts which meant that traffic entering had priority. I found that pretty scary.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| johnE wrote: |
| Quote: |
Not that rare, the basic rule is priority from the right unless otherwise indicated by signs and that can be on main roads you are driving along at 80kph.
|
When I first rode in France this rule also applied to roundabouts which meant that traffic entering had priority. I found that pretty scary. |
The rule still applies to roundabouts, unless specifically disapplied. As it is at almost every roundabout by a Give Way sign with (just to emphasise the point) "cedez le passage" (give way) written underneath. However the roundabout at the Arc de Triomphe (and others) do not have such a sign. And so an unholy mess applies.
To be fair the principle is pretty ubiquitous in Europe, yellow-diamond road-signs indicating prioirty appearing in Spain, Germany, Italy, Norway, Belgium etc. etc. etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
The French, God bless them, are shit at roundabouts.
But as a long term Milton Keynes resident I probably would say that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
@Layne,
| Quote: |
The French, God bless them, are poo-poo at roundabouts.
|
Great! But really now not that true. 10 or 15 years ago they were horrendous and it was pretty much a spectator sport, but now even in the backwater that is La Vendee, most of them have the hang of rond point now.
Also, priorite a droit isn't anywhere near as prevalent as it used to be. We've seen the whole road situation change (for the better) in the last 24 years or so. I think the best thing that made the most difference was getting rid of the voiture sans permit that all the pished up farmers used to drive in between each others caves!
But back to the OP. I agree that driving a van has skewed the costings somewhat. I'd never consider driving across France on toll free roads, it just takes forever and the express BMW uses far too much fuel on normal roads.
Has anyone tried Solnox fuel additive? I used it in my 330ci BMW and got amazing results, about 25% better fuel consumption, (from c.320miles per tank to >400), but tried it in my wife's BMW 120 and it hardly made any difference at all, about 5% max. Both petrol but they do a diesel version.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Any vehicle will be slightly more economical on autoroutes, rather than rural roads, IF they are pootling along at 90kmh.
But every vehicle that I have owned, is far more economical at 90kmh on rural roads rather than 130kmh on autoroutes.
It was very noticeable with our Ford Smax 2.0 diesel, that it had much better mpg on busy UK motorways driving from N Yorks to Dover than on deserted french autoroutes. Typically, fuel consumption was 10% higher on the autoroutes.
Atvautoroute speeds, the Smax did 36mpg, £384 in fuel for the journey I did, sitting at 90kmh, it was good for 55mpg £251 for the same journey.
If you are travelling with a car full of family, and you are footing the bill, it's still worth the extra £300 to take the autoroutes compared to the greif from the kids etc 
If it's a car full of friends sharing the costs, It's a no brainer to take the autoroute, even in a van.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@tangowaggon, not affected by the tolls as our t5 campervan is the same as our car, and it is still reasonably economical, but it is nice meandering through France at a slower pace when we can. Probably going to do our trip down to Monetier to the west of Paris in September.
@Ski Shagger, can I ask what website your screen shot is from please?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@tangowaggon, interesting statistics about fuel consumption. Cruising at 130 my wife’s Skoda 2 litre diesel does 45 mpg and about the same on rural roads where the speed limit is 80. I imagine this is because the rural roads we tend to be on are negotiating lots of small villages and towns or have lots of hairpins. Oh for those long deserted d roads I used to do on my motorcycle
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| johnE wrote: |
| @tangowaggon, interesting statistics about fuel consumption. Cruising at 130 my wife’s Skoda 2 litre diesel does 45 mpg and about the same on rural roads where the speed limit is 80. I imagine this is because the rural roads we tend to be on are negotiating lots of small villages and towns or have lots of hairpins. Oh for those long deserted d roads I used to do on my motorcycle |
I guess it must be driving style, when I'm getting 39.5mpg out of a 2.3 litre, 3 tonne van on those rural roads. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
We have done 2 trips from Edinburgh to Meribel this winter, first one December/January and second March/April. We drive a petrol Peugeot Rifter and do not go over 110kph (70mph) as it gives better fuel economy and doesn't seem to make the journey much longer. We have driven to France from Scotland over 50 times.
First trip we used the Hull overnight ferry but returned Calais/Dover ferry. Its only the second time we have used the Hull ferry and would not do it again as the drive from Rotterdam to the alps is so tiring in winter months when there are fewer hours of daylight and lots of spray from other vehicles (12+ hours even with 2 drivers). Going via Dover gives 2 days of travel with an overnight stop in N France.
Trip 1
Total distance driven 2100 miles
Fuel 241litres, £340
Tolls £98
Ferry costs £315
Hotel costs £66
Total £819
Trip 2
Distance 2200 miles
Fuel 247litres, £375
Tolls £128
Ferry costs £170
Hotel costs £116
Total £789
So the Hull route cost £30 more and was 1 hour less in total driving time but a dreadful drive from Rotterdam. We will stick with the Dover route and using the ferry gives us a good rest after the drive from Scotland. Each to their own way!
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Having done Newhaven - Dieppe the first time we drove to Andorra, we nearly missed our ferry outbound due to an accident, on the way back, we were early & had to wait 5 hrs.
This is one more reason why I've never bothered with the Hull ferry, you need to be sure to get there well in time to allow for delays.
I was delayed by 2.5 hrs on my drive to Dover due to a lorry fire on the A1 but I got straight onto the next available ferry that departed just 1.5 hrs after the one I was booked on 
Had I missed the Hull ferry, it's 24hrs till the next, or drive to Dover/Calais
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Hells Bells, that screenshot is from about-france.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
@tangowaggon, More to do with the rural roads we are on. Almost no cruising in top gear but lots of slowing down, accelerating and stop start. Can do a lot better on the long deserted D roads of the empty diagonal.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
@tangowaggon, …I travel from Calais to the Valais a number of times and have done it for 25 years. It is entirely possible to use non autoroute N roads and with careful choice these can be fun, interesting and relaxing. Some are long and straight and easy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
@Ski Shagger, where was the final destination in the alps?
it doesn't say on the route directions where you were ending up, i did a quick google map route checker from Calais to the 3v's via non motorways, and it was generally skirting via northern France, so am assuming it was a more westerly resort.
we went to VT from Caen at easter, and i had decided to go via Loire valley route compared to Paris, albeit via the autoroutes, i am glad we did as i had never been to the Auvergne region before and it looked stunning.
some 25 years ago now, pre-kids, me and my now ex wife travelled around Normandy and the Loire valley for a couple of weeks on the back roads, staying on campsites/cheap B&B's, this was before smart phones so the choices were made via "rough guide" books and an E.leclerc map. we decided to make it our goal to tick off as many of the supermarket chains stores that we could, i know, we were sad!!!!
i think in future i may look at doing a trip or two via non autoroutes, and taking my time to get there and visiting some off the beat and track villages.
i doubt if it will save any money in the long run, as the saving on the tolls would probably end up going on something else.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
When I go to the 3V ..or anywhere else in that area I usually go Calais Lille Luxembourg (cheap fuel) Matz Nancy Besancon Gex Annecy 604 miles and about 14 hours driving ..but I usually do an ovenight just outside Lux ..the hotels are really cheap ..but theres no tolls
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
@Hells Bells, this one https://about-france.com/routes-from-calais.htm
@terrygasson, I was on the EoSB and stayed on for a few days in the small aire behind P2 in VT. The route was great for most of the way, the last couple of hours to Albertville (where I overnighted on Friday) had 50+ roundabouts
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@DaveD, Your route takes 5 hours longer of driving (even with stops it takes 9:30 from Calais to Les Arcs), an overnight stay and saves 80€ in tolls over the autotoute. I'm afraid I prefer the more relaxed cruise down the autoroute listening to talking books than the non toll roads. However, when I used to tour Europe on my motorcycle I avoided toll roads and motorways and took my time looking at the scenery.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
@tangowaggon, did you look in to the Eurotunnel costs vs the Ferry? Usually it's a fair bit more expensive, however when we drove back from the UK on the weekend it was only c.£40 more vs the Ferry so it was a no brainer.
The OH took the ferry back to the UK and got lucky that she turned up early just before the previous boat was leaving so got bumped forward on to that.
On our train back, we arrived c.2hours early, and they were able to move us forward 1 hour, and then when it go to it we ended up on the train before so a further 20 mins early.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| johnE wrote: |
| @DaveD, Your route takes 5 hours longer of driving (even with stops it takes 9:30 from Calais to Les Arcs), an overnight stay and saves 80€ in tolls over the autotoute. I'm afraid I prefer the more relaxed cruise down the autoroute listening to talking books than the non toll roads. However, when I used to tour Europe on my motorcycle I avoided toll roads and motorways and took my time looking at the scenery. |
Tangowaggon said that the toll cost was double for a van so both ways that €360 and he's in a van which cant go that quickly
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
)
