 Poster: A snowHead
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In the dutch language there is a saying about the odd black sheep, and it is as old as it gets, certainly from before there were many/any black immigrants.
So the black sheep is used for something odd and unwanted (ya know, among the herd of white sheep suddenly a black one gets born), rather then a racist symbol towards black people. I wouldn't be suprised if other countries share a smilar saying. Certainly has the looks Switzerland knows a similar use.
These days people fall over little things like rows of domino stones... Are we so stuck up with everything we need to see racism in everything these days?
Especially when something is from another country, you just miss context!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ronald, I am afraid 'black sheep' are a massive thought crime to beardy, Guardian types like Brian, killian & lizzard.
That is just the way it is in the UK.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Latchigo, for your information:
- I am not capable of growing a beard
- I get my English-language news from Radio 4, The Daily Telegraph, The Times, The Guardian and The Independent, in that order.
- I have no issue with the use of the phrase 'black sheep'
............. you patronising git. Bit less of the ad hominem, please.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Lizzard, One sometimes wonders whether that stuff is wilful misunderstanding of the modern world or plain stupidity.
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Chris Bish, probably the latter, unfortunately. 
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Well I live here in switzerland as an auslander (foreigner- a Brit) and they are not really racist per say but the right wing party tends to appeal largely to peoples fears such as crime and stuff in what is a very safe country. Its all about vote winning - the far right party is big but it plays on fear and at the end of the day the average swiss person may have some hidden bias and fears of people who aren't white but that kind of comes from how their country has been for 100s of years. I'm not saying its inherent racism but it sure is inherent suspicion - I have to have a B visa ID card on me afaik when I'm out and about...
Oh and the far right partys new wonderful plan to "save" switzerland is to expel entire familys of foreigners if one family member commits a crime....vote winning attempt right there.
Oh and I think they have also done worse adverts than that over the years....
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Lizzard, I don't know why you're questioning the judgement of Latchigo who would never stereotype anybody, and is never patronising. He got me down to a T once, in an another thread
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| pam w eh ? Older woman from Hampshire ? Daily Mail reader ? I'd let your husband worry about the skiing decisions |
Just ignore him. I'm sure he doesn't approve of any of your sources of information.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Lizzard wrote: |
Latchigo, for your information:
- I am not capable of growing a beard
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I knew that - but I could not be bothered to add 'crop-haired, dungaree-wearing, DocMarten-shod Guardian type' 
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Lizzard, ignore, ignore....
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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pam w, oh all right. I suppose I could find better things to do than waste my time on such a complete @rsehole. Mind you, he's spot on with the short hair and DMs, but only because I'm about to embark on six weeks of manual labour during which I will have no time to get may hair cut.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| beanie1 wrote: |
25% of the working population in Switxerland is non Swiss - that's pretty high. 60% (if i recall correctly) of the prison population is non Swiss - also VERY high! Not surprised they want the criminals out once they leave prison, but i doubt that many people have an objection making a substantial contribution to the economy.
However, the propoganda that is being used is despicable - inciting racism in people who probably have very limited understanding of the facts. |
Here in Holland over 75% of the prison population is foreign
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You know it makes sense.
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Alastair Pink, that seems more than reasonable. I don't think 'but I'll be tortured if you send me home' should cut much ice either - should have thought of that in the first place, really.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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ise, Good to see that you are alive and well, as have not seen any posts from you for months! So I totally agree with your sentiments on all counts. I have been holidaying in Switzerland for more years than I care to remember, and I would not consider them racist at all. They are a disciplined people who get on with their lives without rocking too many political boats. In my travels I have noticed that there are numbers of immigrant workers who seem to be quite happy to be in Switzerland and well integrated otherwise they would not be there would they?
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Poster: A snowHead
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If I remember correctly Switzerland has more referendums than any other European country.
So is this the unacceptable face of democracy?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I don't think so, every nation has a right-wing party. I think people are just spinning it a tad bit too much to turn it into a scandal personally.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Never mind, if the Liberal Democrats have their way, all the Swiss criminal families will be welcomed with open arms in the UK. The Lib Dems are proposing an 'amnesty' for illegals.
When I challenged my MP on this there was a bit of backtracking, but we will see...
''Thank you for your recent message.
Sadly, the Independent article did not accuratly(sic) report the proposals to be
discussed at our conference.
Emphasis in the article was put on the word 'amnesty' which is something of
an exaggeration. That part of our proposal is actually suggesting a method
of gaining citizenship under very strict criteria.
At the moment the backlog of immigration cases is out of control which can
only be put down to plain inefficiency on the part of the Home Office.
Whatever the solution is to handling this current level of people living
outside the legal system, a new system needs to be put in place to prevent
the backlog getting worse in the future. That is why we are also proposing:
. Improving border controls with the introduction of a National Border
Force and reintroducing exit checks at all ports
. Increasing the price of work permits paid by businesses to employ
immigrant workers and using the money to re-train British workers in sectors
affected by immigration
The intention is to control the levels of immigration in future and
encourage cohesiveness in our society. I note, from your message, that
these are your main concerns.
Yours sincerely
Edward Davey MP''
I would gladly take a Swiss politician in his place.
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Ise made a very good observation which seems to have been ignored ........
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In fact you'll find they are, is there another country in Europe, or the world for that matter, where four distinct groups with their own languages have co-existed for centuries? Maybe the Swiss are rather more tolerant and rather less judgemental than some of their neighbours?
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Whilst working in Zurich the only intolerance I came across was the usual French v. The Germans and everyone else blaming the Italians for bank robberies 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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boredsurfin, I would agree. I've found (in my short time here) the Swiss to be universally extremely tolerant, as you long as you live by the "Golden Rule" (oh, and keep all your paperwork & taxes up to date).
I could well imagine that it is an extension of this that allows the political party in question to run a very questionable campaign. Sure, you can believe what you like, but when you lose the election, don't complain about it.
The local reaction to the poster campaign has been, well, obvious. I doubt any of them remain legible.
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David Murdoch, is it still a 20chf fine if you cross the road against red man? Even if there is no vehicle for miles 
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| boredsurfin wrote: |
| David Murdoch, is it still a 20chf fine if you cross the road against red man? Even if there is no vehicle for miles |
Many countries have that law. for Example Sweden , Germany
Why pay thousands of €€$$ in taxes for Pedestrian Lights if you just ignore them?
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boredsurfin, Don't know about that one, but I'm still waiting for my personal licence plate insertion operation (yes, we have waiting lists here too) so maybe I just haven't been caught yet.
stanton, why pay €billions for nuclear weapons if you never use them?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The Swiss economic miracle is built squarely on overskilled human capital.
They aim to keep out underskilled people.
Their visual imagery in the campaign is perhaps tasteless, arguably offensive and definitely outdated.
But the underlying broad thrust of their goal -- to upskill, not downskill, their workers -- is the correct longterm strategy.
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stanton,
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Why pay thousands of €€$$ in taxes for Pedestrian Lights if you just ignore them?
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Because we British Humans have common sense and ignore them when there is no traffic in the area.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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As another Swiss resident, I'm with ise, DM, DG ORf et al - the Swiss are xenophobic rather than racist (they're racist if you take that to mean that anyone who isn't Swiss is pretty much a second class citizen to be pitied for not being Swiss), but if you make the effort to integrate and make a contribution then you are welcomed. Understandably I think the Swiss are rather wary of foreigners entering the country to take advantage of teh spoils of their (the Swiss') hard work without putting anything back in.
IME the more outrageous the SVP posters are, the less likely their proposals are to succeed at referendum. And just because their posters can be objectionable doesn't mean all their proposals are (I'm no fan of them btw and am rooting for Blocher to be deselected in December)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| ise wrote: |
| In truth the average Swiss is far more concerned if their neighbours are using the correct bins for the recycling than their race, colour, country of birth, sexual preferences or religion. |
Ain't that the truth!
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You know it makes sense.
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| boredsurfin wrote: |
stanton,
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Why pay thousands of €€$$ in taxes for Pedestrian Lights if you just ignore them?
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Because we British Humans have common sense and ignore them when there is no traffic in the area. |
Is that why they put up sidewalk guard rails by pedestrian crossing as well to try and keep you from crossing ?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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The Swiss and Dutch are hardly alone - the inimitable Flanders & Swann were at it (albeit TIC) ages ago
"It's not that they're wicked or naturally bad
It's knowing they're foreign that makes them so mad"
http://www.allthelyrics.com/song/270238/
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| eng_ch wrote: |
| As another Swiss resident, I'm with ise, DM, DG ORf et al - the Swiss are xenophobic rather than racist (they're racist if you take that to mean that anyone who isn't Swiss is pretty much a second class citizen to be pitied for not being Swiss) |
'Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of life.'
Cecil Rhodes 1853 -1902
Same difference ? (I believe stanton currently holds similar views)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Latchigo, quite, plus ça change....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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mountain mad, Following on from the statement above by Mr. C. Rhodes, if I won the National Lottery and was foolish enough to allow that fact to become public knowledge, I would be overwhelmed with requests from all sorts of strangers to help them out financially.
I would not feel obligated to these strangers. In the same way, at a national level a country's citizens have no obligation to hard luck stories from foreigners. So even if a disabled, Kosovan, lesbian single mother turns up on your doorstep you are entitled to say 'Sorry but we will not help'.
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| BBC website wrote: |
The report, from Switzerland's Federal Commission on Racial Discrimination, recommends far-reaching changes.
It criticises the practice of allowing members of a community to vote on an individual's citizenship application. |
There's a lot of people who only approve of democracy when it gives the correct answers.
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| Latchigo wrote: |
| In the same way, at a national level a country's citizens have no obligation to hard luck stories from foreigners. So even if a disabled, Kosovan, lesbian single mother turns up on your doorstep you are entitled to say 'Sorry but we will not help'. |
Here's the first line in the article linked to above "An official report into the process of naturalisation in Switzerland says the current system is discriminatory and in many respects racist." Straight and to the point
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Diarmuid, I am not sure what you are trying to say.
Just because an 'official report' says something that does not mean the comment is sound. Throwing labels around, as some sort of show-stopper, is an old trick.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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They have the worlds 2nd or 3rd most competitive economy, so maybe there is something to be said for good timekeeping, long working hours and no holidays plus the ability to be able to fire people when you like?
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FAQ
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