 Poster: A snowHead
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I don't know whether this is the right forum to ask this question, if this is not the right section, I apologise.
Anyway, my question is when you are skiing off-piste in deep powder, do you use a cord to tie your skis (bindings) to your feet like the old days, or do you crank up the DIN setting on your bindings to make sure they don't come off easily, or what do you do?
I am worried that during a fall the skis come off and nowhere to be found in deep snow.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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There was an answer to this in the 'Bend Ze Knees' section, I think.
You get some brightly coloured ribbon, attach one end to rear binding and tuck remainder in back of boot.
Ski comes off, ribbon trails out.
I'm a beginner so not qualified, but cranking up bindings sounds like a serious no no 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks a lot.
My other worry is that I might end up say 20 metres below the skis, climbing up in deep powder to retrieve the ski is no easy task.
My friend went to Mr Smith's Ski Academy in New Zealand last year, he told me Mr. Smith crank up his DIN setting to 14+ when skiing deep powder. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You set your DIN for your weight, experience and boot sole length. I would not advise setting your DIN up to 14+
If your constantly falling over some money well spent on lessons would probably be more beneficial that cranking your bindings up and snapping something inside your leg!
regards,
Greg
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I value my knees more than my skis, so I wouldn't crank up my bindings simply to stop them coming off. Powder traces might be a somewhat safer option.
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Greg - what you said is absolute correct.
No way I would risk breaking my leg by cranking up the DIN setting, I just wondered whether Warren Smith has his binding set on 14 when skiing on-piste.
Guys - thanks for all the advice.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Crusader wrote: |
Thanks a lot.
My other worry is that I might end up say 20 metres below the skis, climbing up in deep powder to retrieve the ski is no easy task. |
True. One thing that can help climbing back up a slope is to hold both poles together with one hand at each end, then use that as an anchor in the snow to help pull yourself up the slope when climbing back up.
Don't rack your bindings up unless you really know what you're doing. It's something experts sometimes do when the risk of a twisted knee are the least of your worries in a fall. Essentially it's appropriate when they are in seriously committing territory and they know they're not going to fall due to any minor stupidity. I'm not being rude, but given your questions, you're not there yet. Get some powder traces.
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| Steilhang wrote: |
I would respectfully suggest that Mr. Smith is crazy  |
Absolutely! (I find it difficult to believe anyone would suggest this).
The only time it is reasonable to crank up bindings is where losing your skis might result in death (eg on an extremely steep slope above rocks).
Personally, though I own some powder traces, I find the ribbon method doesn't work - the snow simply tugs at the exposed bit of ribbon and it is soon trailing behind you. But if you can make it work it is a good idea. What we need is a way of tagging skis so that they can be found with something like an avalanche transciever - not sure if anything like that has been invented?
By the way, although skis normally stop where you fell while you fall further down the slope - it sometimes happens the other way round in very deep, powder, and the ski continues down invisibly under the snow and ends up below you.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| snowball wrote: |
| Steilhang wrote: |
| I would respectfully suggest that Mr. Smith is crazy |
Absolutely! (I find it difficult to believe anyone would suggest this). |
I've had discussions with Warren Smith re off-piste DIN settings & I can assure you that he's well aware of the implications of high settings. If this is true then I'm sure there will have been factors that we're not aware of.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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snowball, I've found that while ribbons are a PITA to use they do work, and if I keep the end of the ribbon tucked in my boot then they don't unravel behind me. At any rate, it's better than flailing around in deep powder looking for skis that ( as you say ) have travelled some distance under the snow and are nowhere near where you thought they should be. I once spent more than an hour doing that
I remember seeing something about a ski transceiver once. I just can't seem to find any reference to it on the web.
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Crusader, I know plenty of skiers, myself included, that can blast around on piste on a type 2 DIN setting with no problems at all but then release too easily off-piste.
It's difficult to make a recommendation re settings as I don't know all your stats but as deep/difficult snow conditions can often be very 'grabby' I usually recommend to my customers that we set their bindings as per the DIN charts but with them classified as a type 3 skier. Then if you still release too easily then re-classify yourself as a type 3+.
The down side of a higher setting is vunerability to low speed or stationary (lift line) falls.
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You know it makes sense.
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Jon, Many thanks.
Yes, low speed or stationary fall could lead to something serious.
Regards,
Michael
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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PS, nobody answered the original question - No nobody now attaches the ski to the foot with a cord. Too many possible bad things can happen when you fall (or are in an avalanche). We did that when I learned to ski in the 50s and 60s, but that was to prevent skis running off down the slope (before ski brakes were invented)
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Poster: A snowHead
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| snowball wrote: |
| PS, nobody answered the original question - No nobody now attaches the ski to the foot with a cord. |
Except for tourers using, say, new Dynafit's or Fritschi Explore's and wanting save weight.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| snowball wrote: |
| PS, nobody answered the original question - No nobody now attaches the ski to the foot with a cord..... |
David Goldsmith does.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I just use ribbon powder tracers, tucked into my boots but not attached to my leg. I leave the DIN settings well alone and don't seem to have any pre-release issues. I don't ski anything life threatening either!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I never fall. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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snowbunny, when I get home I'll weigh the straps supplied with Fritschis vs. their ski brakes and see if that's true. Even if it is, I'd still use the brakes.
snowball, I'm sure you could at one time buy little "mouse" shaped blobs that attached to the skis and worked with a transceiver. Presumably there was a separate frequency for the "blobs" so a special transceiver was required? Maybe somebody here will know?
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snowbunny, yes they are extra but you said save weight not money 
I'll report back with weights when in UK.
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bloxy
bloxy
Guest
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| snowball wrote: |
| [What we need is a way of tagging skis so that they can be found with something like an avalanche transciever - not sure if anything like that has been invented? |
Yes. They are small active transponders, really designed for transceiver practice but I did read about them being used on skis. Was probably in a US article.
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if you are considering cranking the DIN setting to 14, maybe this thread should be re-titled - DON'T LOOSE YOUR KNEES !!! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Another consideration not mentioned so far is what happens when you're in an avalanche. In most cases you want your skis to come off. So the lower the DIN the better; within reason. I only crank mine up to 14 when i consider that in case of a fall a broken leg is the least of my worries; ie high exposure descents.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Yoda, you are a very naughty pedantic boy. Now go and stand in a corner.
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You know it makes sense.
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DIN 14. I suppose Braquage does put some pretty heavy lateral loads on the bindings.
I find it very hard to believe WS would advise a client to do that. I would be good to hear from someone with first hand experience BGA maybe.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Spyderman wrote: |
DIN 14. I suppose Braquage does put some pretty heavy lateral loads on the bindings.
I find it very hard to believe WS would advise a client to do that. I would be good to hear from someone with first hand experience BGA maybe. |
Just clarification - I DID NOT say nor imply WS advised any of his client to crank up the DIN to 14+.
My friend who was in his class last summer told me that he noticed that WS himself set his binding to 14+ when skiing in deep powder.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Crusader, what setting did WS use normally?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I once fell forward off both of my skis at once whilst skiing deep powder. The skis were both buried but we found them eventually.
One minute I'm happily skiing along a clear area between trees, the next thing I know I'm hurtling headfirst through the air without any skis
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Done that loads of times.
Someone I used to know - a brilliant skier - has gone in for the French Grande Raid race several times which is entirely off piste from top to bottom of the moiuntain, chosing your own route. It is skied inpairs (mixed sex or same sex and the categories are also divided as professional / non professional. He has won the mixed-sex-non-professional twice with his girlfriend - ex French ski team, and once the non professional men, with another guy).
The year he was doing it with the guy and they were doing a training run off piste in very flat light. They had both cranked their bindings up to maximum. He hit a double bump that he just managed to see in time and absorb, but his friend didn't see it. His bindings didn't release - instead he tore both bindings' heel-pieces out of the skis!
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Very strong knees, I must say.
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if your worried about losing a ski, just employ a boarder to wait at the top then pick up all the collatoral damage on their way down...
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| abc wrote: |
| Very strong knees, I must say. |
In my current state I think I'd just snap off at the knees. (but my bindings are set at 8 1/2 - so they should release OK  )
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowball,
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PS, nobody answered the original question - No nobody now attaches the ski to the foot with a cord. Too many possible bad things can happen when you fall (or are in an avalanche). We did that when I learned to ski in the 50s and 60s, but that was to prevent skis running off down the slope (before ski brakes were invented)
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Yes they do. Most tele skiers will be attached to their skis. My touring tele ski bindings are releasable, but don't have brakes, so I use leashes. My downhill teleskis have 7TM releasable bindings with brakes, but the brakes only work if the binding releases properly, not if the heel clip is knocked down or the duckbill twists out of the toe box. So though i don't use leashes I do have a ankle strap that stops the heel clip being released accidentally.
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Yes, OK, there are some circumstances.
Actually when I learned we had a strap which was attached to the cable binding on the inner side, was looped around the ankle and buckled to another short strap on the outside cable. When you fell the ski often twisted around and hit you.
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FAQ
Well I can report that a pair of medium (86mm) Fritschi brakes (with screws 