 Poster: A snowHead
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| carroz wrote: |
| bar shaker, I think kenzie means that the grand bernard pass is shut in winter. To get to 3v you need to go via albertville. |
Yep!
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brian
brian
Guest
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| carroz wrote: |
| bar shaker, I think kenzie means that the grand bernard pass is shut in winter. To get to 3v you need to go via albertville. |
I think what he *really* means is the Petit St Bernard pass is shut in winter. The Grand St Bernard would have you heading into Switzerland towards Verbier ! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| pam w wrote: |
| Kenzie, what info do satnavs have about the opening of passes. Some are always shut (eg cormet de roseland) some are sometimes shut (eg from Chamonix over to Martigny, can never remember it's name). I don't think the opening and closing dates are always known far in advance - how would a satnav know? |
I don't use one, but I check the route from Zeebrugge to Tignes with viamichelin.com.
One of the reasons I don't use one is the problem of being directed over closed passes. I have yeard of people trying to get from Geneva to Tignes & being directed via the tunnel & Bernard pass (used as pistes in winter!), and then having to turn around at Thuile & drive back.
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I remember last Easter driving from Geneva to Brides-Les-Bains and my little Garmin obviously wanted to take me over some passes. A quick check of the route made this fairly obvious. Instead I set it to find some place in Annecy and then, when I was nearly there, reset it to navigate to Brides. All fairly obvious except I had to nail a street in Annecy 'cos it can't just navigate to a town. I simply picked something that sounded like it might be in the centre.
I've just checked using the MapSource software on my PC - it wanted to take me via Le Petit-Bornand-Les-Glises, Saint-Jean-de-Sixt, La Clusaz, La Giettaz and Flumet. Sounds interesting but Annecy is pretty too!
There's a good offer on the Garmin Nuvi 310 at CPC. Unfortunately, it contains UK and Ireland mapping only - although it's only about £60 to buy the latest full european mapping from Garmin.
Offer: http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=AV18457
Review: http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/garmin-nuvi-review.php
(This is for an earlier version without the Bluetooth hands-free)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Google maps is a bit dumb with regard to mountain pass winter closures too. In fact, is there any computerized mapping system anywhere that actually knows this info, or are old fashioned paper maps and local knowledge still best bet?
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Altis
Garmins let you create a waypoint by touching the screen. You can touch a town and then click the new waypoint in Recently Found Places when telling it where you want to go. Tom Toms may do the same, I'm not sure.
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I'm not a big fan of satnavs because they do seem to make some otherwise quite sensible people turn into brainless zombies (as the mountain pass examples make clear). But for finding, say, a hotel in a big resort like Chamonix, or indeed a B & B in Betws y Coed, or finding anything in a big city, they are great. Especially if you arrive in the dark. And especially if you leave your brain in gear. "The Satnav took me the wrong way down a one-way street, your Honour". Doh!
The OP wanted an inexpensive one - exactly my brief when I perused the Which (and other) consumer reports and bought a TomTom One Europe. It can't interface with anything, or make the tea, but it does its basic job well. It should also do much for marital harmony - because I do most of the driving but my OH hates reading maps, especially in the dark.
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Sat Nav is essential when you're on your own/OH is asleep etc.
Rapidly approaching a motorway interchange and trying to read a map on knees is not recommended
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Boris, Sat nav is not essential at all! All that is needed is a list of towns on the dashboard, Reims, Troyes, Dijon etc far cheaper and far more reliable than a sat nav. People were driving and finding destinations long before GPS was thought of.
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I was pretty much going to say the same thing. A list of waypoints will be sufficient for 90% of most journeys, then follow signs. You only need to get the map out for the fiddly bit at the end. Not at motorway interchanges surely - unless you actually don't know where you're going, and only your navigator does, as some kind of automotive orienteering game or something 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Boris, I'd agree with Fogliettaz and paulio. However did we manage all those years, without satnav, and without motorways - which are consistently and effectively signposted, miles ahead of junctions. Given that nobody should be driving for too many hours without stopping, a quick check at a coffee stop is all that's required. I've driven round towns with maps on my knees, but not motorway interchanges. On minor country roads in the dark, in an area you don't know, where some signs appear not to have been replaced after removal in WW2 to fox the enemy, I'm sure they're very useful. But even there, we did manage in the past. Jot down a few key points and, if necessary, pull in somewhere safe and have a look at the map. It's not rocket science.
If living with Satnavs gets many people thinking that they couldn't navigate motorway interchanges without them, then when I'm God I shall have to think about banning them. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Fogliettaz, of course they were and people were travelling round the world before cars and maps were invented. Sometimes following signs isn't the best way either and if trying to find somewhere fiddly by yourself Sat Nav is probably a damn sight safer for both you and other road users.
Of course you shouldn't follow it blindly but then there's enough reports of people getting stuck that if you do then you deserve it.
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Fogliettaz, how do you read the list on the dashboard if its dark?
Ok motorway navigation is fairly straightforward - but swap the motorway for locating a destination in a city and Sat Navs are worth their weight in gold. Yes people managed before - I was one of them, and I remember sitting by the side of the road with my A-Z, talking to people who had no clue, double-parking and going into shops to ask etc.
Also bear in mind that not every town is show at motorway interchanges - imagine you're from Milan and are on holiday in the UK. You are approaching the M25 from the M40 and want to go to Dover. Which way do you go on the M25?
I was somewhat confused the first time I drove back from the Alps - as the sign outside Lyon gave the choice of Paris or Marseille. I knew Marseille was the wrong way, but didn't really want to go to Paris either. I now realise that sign effectively meant The North or The South
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You know it makes sense.
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I only bought one to help with diverts for traffic/accidents etc. For that, they are great. The rest just needs a bit of forward planning that should be done anyway.
As pilots it gets drummed into you not to trust them 100% and some of this sticks when driving too.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Boris wrote: |
| FogliettazAlso bear in mind that not every town is show at motorway interchanges - imagine you're from Milan and are on holiday in the UK. You are approaching the M25 from the M40 and want to go to Dover. Which way do you go on the M25? |
It doesn't matter 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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how do you read the list on the dashboard if its dark?
You only need a list of 6 towns to get to the French Alps, does not take much to memorise!
Also bear in mind that not every town is show at motorway interchanges - imagine you're from Milan and are on holiday in the UK. You are approaching the M25 from the M40 and want to go to Dover. Which way do you go on the M25?
Does not matter what way you go round the M25 as you are half way from J1 M2 or J3 M20
Michelin do probably the best range of road maps on the market and if you have a sat nav you should always check the route on paper.
I sail a lot during the summer and I would never go to sea relying sole on a GPS of which nearly every member of crew carries! Courses are always studied and plotted on paper charts.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| paulio wrote: |
| Boris wrote: |
| FogliettazAlso bear in mind that not every town is show at motorway interchanges - imagine you're from Milan and are on holiday in the UK. You are approaching the M25 from the M40 and want to go to Dover. Which way do you go on the M25? |
It doesn't matter |
It does if you haven't got £1 for the tolls going the North option - which is also 16 further
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
I sail a lot during the summer and I would never go to sea relying sole on a GPS of which nearly every member of crew carries! Courses are always studied and plotted on paper charts.
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No ones saying to solely rely on it, in fact everyone seems in agreement you should check the route it gives you first. Now imagine you're off on your boat and someone gets very sick, how much easier is it to tell the rescue services we're at lat X long Y to the nearest metre than to check on the charts and then not be quite as accurate.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Tue 25-11-08 17:42; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Boris, It is £1.50 now for the bridge!
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Boris, I know I was just being 'funny'.
But when, say, I was navigating round the Brussels equivalent of the M25, it only needed a glance at a map to make sure that the exit I'd just gone past was the right way round it (during which time I wasn't paying attention to my speedo and found myself inadvertently doing 145mph - whoops!)
Not that I'm trying to have a pissing contest with you ner ner ner I'm the best navigator
My phone Sat Nav has saved my bacon a couple of times I must confess.
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paulio, ah the R0 ring, that's only 2/3 of a ring. Garmin Nuvi certainly helped me... especially when some towns like Liege have 2 names in Belgium and then a 3rd in German. Very handy to know what lane you're supposed to be in when the sign says X when your map and GPS says Y. Only time it went wrong for me was the time I was hurtling along and then suddenly realising (well told by GPS) that I was supposed to be in the 1km long traffic jam 2 lanes to the right.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
BTW - the button under the smily faces below called 'Quote Seleted' - very handy to pick out others comments, you should try it some time
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Not too good with these forums, I do however carry a GPS when boarding and skiing mainly to check the number of kilometres covered and max speed gained.
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brian
brian
Guest
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Fogliettaz, so you don't carry a GPS where it's actually useful but do carry one for entirely useless frivolity. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Fogliettaz, sorry just having a sly dig - it took me months until I worked out how to reply with quotes and things as well
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
so you don't carry a GPS where it's actually useful but do carry one for entirely useless frivolity
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As said earlier in this thread it is very useful in giving a lat and lon when I end up the proverbial creek!
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| Boris wrote: |
| I was somewhat confused the first time I drove back from the Alps - as the sign outside Lyon gave the choice of Paris or Marseille. I knew Marseille was the wrong way, but didn't really want to go to Paris either. I now realise that sign effectively meant The North or The South |
Hmm - been there done that got the 'oh shugar' moment in pre sat-nav too - I want to go north but I don't want paris..bollox..navigator..asleep..bug..oh well Marseille can't be right so in for a centime in for a franc (remember those)
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
Sat Nav is essential when you're on your own/OH is asleep etc.
Rapidly approaching a motorway interchange and trying to read a map on knees is not recommended
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Boris, sorry, we're just bored and leapt on these two statements of yours, both of which you've toned down a bit! We're all agreed that a glance at a map will rapidly equip you to navigate a motorway system without satnav OR a map on the knees but that they're mighty useful in town, or driving on your own on poorly signposted minor roads!
I haven't had mine long enough to trust it - when it comes up with a route I check it on the map. Maybe in time I'll stop doing that. Like the other sailors above I'd never rely on a GPS, but I'd equally not like going to sea without one. Satnavs are not as essential, for various reasons - including the fact that if you stop your car to look at a map, or ask the way, you'll stay in the same place till you find out where you are. Not the case in a boat. And there might be nobody to ask, and nothing to see.
I'm going to play with mine to see how it takes me in and out of the French side of Geneva airport, avoiding tolls. There might well be a better way than my normal route.
But having used it yesterday, to get used to it, and find out more about how it works, to drive from here to my son's in Brighton, I overrode it both into and out of Brighton because I thought it was heading too much through the centre - in both directions. If it had been a strange city, where I didn't know the way, it might have found a worse route than I could have done myself, with a map. It's less work, though, and I think it will make me much lazier about map reading. For younger people it will probably mean they never do pick up any map reading skills (the sort you learn through trial and error). Maybe that doesn't matter. Till the US defence establishment switches off the satellites in the 3rd World War....
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Poster: A snowHead
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And to be fair, I would never drive whilst drunk without my sat nav.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Like the other sailors above I'd never rely on a GPS
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Not being a great sailor - I rely on my Sat Nav to take me into the Chunnel so I don't have to go on the damm sea
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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paulio, when drunk, my SatNav has a feature which drives the car for me - I can snooze in the back. It's a bit more pricy than the base model but worth it
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I've found the tunnel to be well signposted. The signs even have nice pictures, for people who don't speak English.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pam w wrote: |
| But having used it yesterday, to get used to it, and find out more about how it works, to drive from here to my son's in Brighton, I overrode it both into and out of Brighton because I thought it was heading too much through the centre - in both directions. If it had been a strange city, where I didn't know the way, it might have found a worse route than I could have done myself, with a map. It's less work, though, and I think it will make me much lazier about map reading. |
Coming into leeds from the south and heading to the NW of the city, a previous sat nav tried to take me right through the middle, and a quick glance at the map showed that there was a very suitable ring-road type road around the outside...
It's important to be master to the machine and not slave to it.. (can I say that nowadays?)
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| pam w wrote: |
| I've found the tunnel to be well signposted. |
Do you need directions in a tunnel? Isn't it "in at one end, out at the other and don't do anything daft in the middle"?
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Don't even think about letting a Tom Tom to have data access from your phone when abroad. Roaming data charges are very expensive and some networks charge a min 1mb on every connection.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| I've found the tunnel to be well signposted. |
Do you need directions in a tunnel? Isn't it "in at one end, out at the other and don't do anything daft in the middle"?
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You need them in the tunnel at Marseilles port. I took my mates Garmin when I went there for the Rugby quarter finals last year. Amazingly it went into some simulation mode and directed us out of the right junctions, all of which were underground.
I was impressed with that.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Can someone who's used a TomTom for some time give me any advice about the "map sharing" facility. It strikes me as a bit dodgy to sign up to download any old "map amendment" made by other users. People could put in all sorts of rubbish just for fun, couldn't they?
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| pam w wrote: |
| Can someone who's used a TomTom for some time give me any advice about the "map sharing" facility. It strikes me as a bit dodgy to sign up to download any old "map amendment" made by other users. People could put in all sorts of rubbish just for fun, couldn't they? |
Have used one for years and about 50,000 miles for every one of those years, the map sharing technology takes an age to execute and you are supposed to back up your file in case it crashes half way through the process, it is a real faff, but I think it has to be uploaded by a number of user's/sharer's before it is verified and is shareable.
I currently have the 720 model the windscreen mount is rubbish compared to the 510 it replaced, the integrated hands free is also rubbish, you have to shout into the mic from about 4", which has to be more dangerous than actually holding your phone. The TMC traffic transmitter is a waste of time especially if you have a heated windscreen.
PamW you earlier posted that you check the route, but when you learn to trust it, you may not !!, On the contrary the more you use your sat Nav and the more you find how easy it is to use, it will become 2nd nature to check the route visually before accepting it. Sat Nav's have revolutionised the way we drive, 10 years ago I used to have a box of A-Z's in the car, now I don't even have an atlas, but they are no substitute for common sense
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Tue 25-11-08 21:57; edited 2 times in total
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FAQ
Without TomTom to nip me through the back roads when some motorways were closed off I would have missed my flight 
