rob@rar, as I said I haven't really thought about it, but it seems that we can not rely on skiers as a whole to take a responsible stance on this, so unfortunately the proposal by DG seems the only way to go.
It is actually good fun to think about this and I woiuld not really ban things but would force through legislation which would have the same impact
Specifically for ski resorts a few things come time mind;
I quite like the idea of making ski resorts all 'car free' and also remove all non essential traffic (permanent residents cars, works vehicles would be allowed) from, say, travelling above 1000 meters and initiate a public transport system to take people up to the resorts, but this would need to be flexible to allow for parking at an appropriate location - maybe a bit like Saas Fee or Zermatt.
I would not allow any private light aircraft and helicoptors from ski resorts.
I would also limit piste grooming to reduce the use piste bashers, and limit the use of snow canons in some manner - maybe it will hopefully slow down skiers and reduce injuries
I would also remove any permits for heli-pads on buildings or on private land anywhere.
So how is that for starters
I would allow the third runway at Heathrow though
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
davidof wrote:
abc wrote:
Not that I know anything about the life of people living in the Alps. Nor about heli-skiing (never did, no plan to). But at least I don't make statements on things I don't know.
Calm down boy. I was just saying that if Valdez wants to put up with helicopters buzzing around that's up to them.
That's the point you didn't get (well, I guess I'm not doing too good a job in getting it across either).
Valdez isn't some idealic mountain village with roaming cows!
"people of Valdez" didn't choose to live there for the peace and quiet. They live and work there so they can make the mega bucks so they could soon retire to Florida!
So it's like saying "if people living near Heathrow don't mind putting up with the constant noise of jets...". Rather irrelevent.
Unlike cows, oil tankers don't produce less milk due to the noise of helicopter.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
rayscoops wrote:
So how is that for starters
All good starting points for discussion. Would those measures be designed to reduce the number of people who see skiing as an attractive holiday proposition, or to reduce their carbon emissions when they did take a skiing holiday?
rob@rar, as I said I haven't really thought about it, but it seems that we can not rely on skiers as a whole to take a responsible stance on this, so unfortunately the proposal by DG seems the only way to go.
It is actually good fun to think about this and I woiuld not really ban things but would force through legislation which would have the same impact
Specifically for ski resorts a few things come time mind;
I quite like the idea of making ski resorts all 'car free' and also remove all non essential traffic (permanent residents cars, works vehicles would be allowed) from, say, travelling above 1000 meters and initiate a public transport system to take people up to the resorts, but this would need to be flexible to allow for parking at an appropriate location - maybe a bit like Saas Fee or Zermatt.
I would not allow any private light aircraft and helicoptors from ski resorts.
I would also limit piste grooming to reduce the use piste bashers, and limit the use of snow canons in some manner - maybe it will hopefully slow down skiers and reduce injuries
I would also remove any permits for heli-pads on buildings or on private land anywhere.
So how is that for starters
I would allow the third runway at Heathrow though
you forgot to mention, no helicopters to evacuate injured skiers/climbers off the mountain, they would of course be left to endure a slow and lingering death, serves their right for injuring themselves in the first place
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
rob@rar, to generally reduce the carbon emissions and use of natural resources in relation to ski resorts in general. I had not really considered the issue of limiting the number of skiers, but I believe some resorts have a cap on the number ski passes they issue per day (S. Navada in Spain?) but I am not sure why they do that - for the abvious reason of not over crowding the piste or to limit congestion in the resorts, what do you think the reason is ?
I seem to have read some where that airlines/countries are given carbon allowances and they can buy unused allowances from other countries/airlines to off-set their excess carbon use, so maybe we could look at the same thing for ski resorts and set them a 'carbon useage allowance', and if the resort wants lots of heli skiing then they can off-set it against, say, snow cannon use or cable cars or piste bashers or maybe even hot tubs or heating/insulation! would you think this would be a good way of keeping a cap on things?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
ymh, now you are being silly essential transport would of course include fire, ambulance, air rescue etc., it goes without saying
After all it is free
After all it is free
rayscoops wrote:
rob@rar, to generally reduce the carbon emissions and use of natural resources in relation to ski resorts in general.
OK, but wouldn't it be better to focus on what we do for the rest of the year rather than a week or two when we're on holiday. For example, making my home and car more energy efficient would reduce my carbon usage significantly more than changing my ski holiday arrangements. I'd be more happy to see drastic (and generally unpalatable) changes to my skiing options if they were part of a concerted effort to change things year-round, rather than focus on a relatively insignificant but high profile activity like skiing because it is seen to have some connection to "the environment". I object to environmental tokenism as well as environmental sacrificial lambs.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
rob@rar, how about doing all of what you say and we are all winners, and each persons two weeks at a resort when considered as a whole adds up to nearly 50% of a year or 100 % of a ski season.
You seem to have more than two weeks a year skiing
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rayscoops wrote:
......I seem to have read some where that airlines/countries are given carbon allowances and they can buy unused allowances from other countries/airlines to off-set their excess carbon use, so maybe we could look at the same thing for ski resorts and set them a 'carbon useage allowance', and if the resort wants lots of heli skiing then they can off-set it against, say, snow cannon use or cable cars or piste bashers or maybe even hot tubs or heating/insulation! would you think this would be a good way of keeping a cap on things?
rayscoops, I've just changed my central heating system for one which is much more efficient than the old one, insulated my loft and specified a higher standard of insulation than required on the house extensions we had done last summer. Next time I change my car fuel efficiency will be a very high consideration. While I make no claims to be especially conscious of environmental issues these actions will no doubt save many times more carbon credits than a ban on my heli-skiing.
You're right, I do get a little bit more than two weeks a year on snow
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
rob@rar,
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
laundryman wrote:
... the earth hasn't warmed for ten years, and has cooled quite significantly in the last couple. I don't remember any of the high priests of global warming predicting that, so they're not as clever as you think.
Average surface temperatures may not have risen, but the oceans have continued to warm. In fact, the planet as a whole has warmed since 1998, even in the years when surface temperatures have fallen.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Thu 5-02-09 2:35; edited 1 time in total
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
achilles, I have often wondered how it all works, and a saving is not a saving if it is spent elsewhere (note this rob@rar, ), I will read that article when I get a bit of time because I am sure that a bit of jiggery pokery goes on and after all, it is a big topic
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
rayscoops wrote:
and a saving is not a saving if it is spent elsewhere (note this rob@rar,
Fair point, but my 'virtue' at home doesn't necessarily mean I will become profligate elsewhere. My only point is that if unpalatable decisions have to be taken that we try to get the most bang for our buck. Tokenism like banning heli-skiing achieves nothing other than making some people feel good about themselves.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
rob@rar, maybe but every little bit of tokenism helps when you add them all up.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
rayscoops wrote:
rob@rar, maybe but every little bit of tokenism helps when you add them all up.
No, I don't think they do. And the downside of tokenism is that it alienates many people who you really want to have on your side. It's a 'hearts and minds' issue more than a legislative problem.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
rob@rar, the way natural resources are being depleted we may well be relying on tokenism in the not so distant future to heat our homes. In such circumstance some how I doubt many people would have much of a problem with the banning of helicoptors from dropping skiers on a distant mountain. I suspect your resistance to banning heli-skiing is more to do with your own personal pleasure in your beloved sport of skiing than any dislike of tokenism
Ski fridges and floodlit skiing seems a tad excessive too, actually floodlit anything should perhaps be looked at
I suspect your resistance to banning heli-skiing is more to do with your own personal pleasure in your beloved sport of skiing than any dislike of tokenism
Not really. I've never done it, and can't imagine I ever will. A ban would have no impact on me in any way; I genuinely do have an objection to tokenism.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
rob@rar, that is quite interesting because I would fancy a bit of heli-boarding and would probably do it if I get the chance, but even so I would prefer tokensim to nothing at all in the circumstances. Strange how we all differ !
That's the point you didn't get (well, I guess I'm not doing too good a job in getting it across either).
Valdez isn't some idealic mountain village with roaming cows!
"people of Valdez" didn't choose to live there for the peace and quiet. They live and work there so they can make the mega bucks so they could soon retire to Florida!
So it's like saying "if people living near Heathrow don't mind putting up with the constant noise of jets...". Rather irrelevent.
Unlike cows, oil tankers don't produce less milk due to the noise of helicopter.
Honestly I don't have the faintest idea what you are whittering on about.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I thought the program was awful. I had to turn it off it was so annoying. How artificial it was to make a tyrolian between the two peaks and then cross it dragging their skiing kit, why didnt they just get the kit dropped off on the other peak, in fact why didnt they just get the heli to drop them on the other peak and avoid the totally safe, over hyped pointless tyrolean (how do you spell that anyway).
As for exciting skiing footage without the heli for access or filming check out Amos' work on youtube
David Goldsmith, I have only read the first two post's of this thread and I don't know if anyone has mentioned this before? But if you are that bothered about the emissions that we all create after over 15,000 posts I wonder how much you could reduce your own foot print by turning your computer off?
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
rob@rar wrote:
rayscoops, I've just changed my central heating system for one which is much more efficient than the old one, insulated my loft and specified a higher standard of insulation than required on the house extensions we had done last summer. Next time I change my car fuel efficiency will be a very high consideration. While I make no claims to be especially conscious of environmental issues these actions will no doubt save many times more carbon credits than a ban on my heli-skiing.
You're completely right. It seems that the average enviro-media-commentator-plonker cares more about jealousy and symbolism than about substance. If you do something that's expensive and consumes loads of energy, you're pure evil; if you waste energy by being too poor to take alternatives, you're a victim of our evil capitalist society.
Who's worse? A vegetarian who cycles to work, insulates his loft but takes a heli-skiing trip once a year? Or a meat-eater who loves out-of season fruit, has a daily 50 mile commute, lives in an uninsulated home and flies to the Alps twice a year? Clearly, the second person has a bigger carbon footprint. But some people want to pick on the first person.
They're barmy.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Thu 5-02-09 9:37; edited 1 time in total
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
clive5 wrote:
David Goldsmith, ... I wonder how much you could reduce your own foot print by turning your computer off?
I've taken my shoe off, which makes a lot more sense.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I don't like this consistant griping against DG personally and he has prompted a debate about a decent subject so more of us are thinking about the problem.
If you agree or disagree, that is your choice but as a journailist he has invited you to think about it....that is no bad thing, IMV
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
JT wrote:
I don't like this consistant griping against DG personally and he has prompted a debate about a decent subject so more of us are thinking about the problem.
If you agree or disagree, that is your choice but as a journailist he has invited you to think about it....that is no bad thing, IMV
Fair comment. I'm about to edit my last post - it wasn't intended to cause offence, but some of it added nothing of value to the debate.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
JT, He's one of those characters that attracts griping and I suspect he thoroughly enjoys it. I thought I was bad enough, but he's in a different league. I very much doubt heli-skiing is a problem for anyone here or the planet as a whole, it just annoys DG. Which for me is a good enough reason to encourage it
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Craghopper wrote:
David Goldsmith, You are a hypocrite - of the first order.
Why hide behind a false name? I don't heli-ski, won't heli-ski, and would like skiing to reduce its environmental impact. Where's the hypocrisy?
richjp wrote:
Believe it ot not, he has probably not been skiing at all for about five years now.
Believe what you like. I thought we'd cleared that up (last time you inferred that falsehood). I most recently skied on snow 37 days ago (including teaching). I've skied since 1959 (50 years ago) and hope to be doing so beyond 2029.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
David Goldsmith, just out of interest, when was the last time you skied in a ski resort rather than an indoor slope?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
David Goldsmith wrote:
...........I don't heli-ski, won't heli-ski, and would like skiing to reduce its environmental impact. Where's the hypocrisy?
Quote:
...... I most recently skied on snow 37 days ago (including teaching). I've skied since 1959 (50 years ago) and hope to be doing so beyond 2029.
Really. On what slope? With what recent review of your BASI qualification?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Spanish Inquisition, it isn't about how much you ski, where you ski, when you skied, whether it was indoors or outdoors, whether it was with a BASI badge. It's about heli-skiing, the BBC, air pollution and climate change.
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
David Goldsmith, that'll be a non-answer then For someone who is so keen on public disclosure of identities you seem very shy about your skiing. Can't help but wonder if you have something to hide. Maybe to encourage you can I offer you a day of skiing, at my expense, around Les Arcs? I'd be delighted to act as your guide for the day, will buy your lift pass, and in case your BASI badge has lapsed I'll even throw in a few tips for free
rob, we all appreciate your one-upmanship! Could I propose that you originate the concept of skiing with three skis on.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
David Goldsmith, it was a genuine offer, honest guv'. If you're passing through the Tarentaise when I'm in Les Arcs I would genuinely love to ski with you for the day.
Some people believe that the Mayan Calender predicts the end of the world on 21 Dec 2012. They have just as much right to believe this as people have to believe in MMGW but belief in these issues, just like belief in religion, should not be the subject of legislation until it is proven beyond doubt.
The only thing that is proven beyond doubt is that the earth's climate has always changed.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
David Goldsmith wrote:
Spanish Inquisition, it isn't about how much you ski, where you ski, when you skied, whether it was indoors or outdoors, whether it was with a BASI badge. It's about heli-skiing, the BBC, air pollution and climate change.....
It's also about you saying you won't and won't heliski. For that to have any moral impact you have to be an off-piste skier (more recently than the Dark Ages) otherwise it's a deceitful attempted extension to your argument.
After all it is free
After all it is free
So it appears that DG may have skied on an indoor slope.
That's not very environmentally friendly.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
David Goldsmith, You said you have taken your shoe off. But I saw you on a hill on Monday with both shoes on. Or where they boots?
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
David Goldsmith, How do you feel about the environmental impact of indoor snow slopes?
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
